Are the Q good or bad?

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2004-02-27 08:59am

Through unspoken means, I've started to watch TNG again (hadn't seen it in years) and after "Encounter at Farpoint", I got thinking, the Q are always seen as villians in TNG and onwards, but are they really villians?

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-02-27 09:01am

Warspite wrote:Through unspoken means, I've started to watch TNG again (hadn't seen it in years) and after "Encounter at Farpoint", I got thinking, the Q are always seen as villians in TNG and onwards, but are they really villians?

I think All Good Things realy appears to indicate they have their own motives, but suffice to say, they appear to have a vested interest in pushing Humanity forward, forcing them to keep expanding and growing.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-27 10:10am

Chris OFarrell wrote:I think All Good Things realy appears to indicate they have their own motives, but suffice to say, they appear to have a vested interest in pushing Humanity forward, forcing them to keep expanding and growing.

It's a shame nothing was made of this.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-02-27 10:30am

Q himself (John de Lancie, assuming I spelled his name right) dosen't appear to be a bad guy, but he just wont listen to reason. Ent crew just wanted to be left alone, he just ignored their demands and wanted to have his way.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-27 07:03pm

Warspite wrote:Through unspoken means, I've started to watch TNG again (hadn't seen it in years) and after "Encounter at Farpoint", I got thinking, the Q are always seen as villians in TNG and onwards, but are they really villians?

Villians, in the same way that we'd appear villianous to a bunch of ants. The Q seems to have a passing interest in us but even Q doesn't seem to give much of a damn one way or the other.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-27 07:14pm

The Q are the Q. They aren't really evil, but they aren't really doing us any favors by their "helping us out".

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-02-27 08:36pm

Actually, it turned out the Q are extremely bored. They claimed they had seen it all, and despite having "unlimited" powers at their disposal, sat around picking their noses and whining about Q being a rogue and stirring up trouble.

Apparently the most excitement they got recently was one of their members commiting suicide(that boredom issue) which sparked a Q civil war and the "birth"(a concept they previously considered unheard of) of a new Q.

Now the Q's entire concept of excitement is babysitting. Apparently baby Q loves to get the Borg to assimilate things. *sigh* Kid after my own heart.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-02-27 11:31pm

The Q does not seem to be evil. They are interested in helping humanity advance forward.

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2004-02-27 11:41pm

evilcat4000 wrote:The Q does not seem to be evil. They are interested in helping humanity advance forward.

As they see it; they don't seem to mind if, in the process of 'helping' them, they destroy humanity.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-02-28 01:13am

The Q are effectively all powerful entities (if they can't actually do something, they can make everybody else think they did, which is nearly as good) and as such are not limited by human morality--they are not good or bad, they simply are.

mh · Post by mh » 2004-02-28 09:28am

is it reasonable at all to ask, if allmighty beings are good or evil? therefore i agree wigh "The Silence and I".

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2004-02-28 12:03pm

mh wrote:is it reasonable at all to ask, if allmighty beings are good or evil? therefore i agree wigh "The Silence and I".

Of course it is reasonable to ask, if some very powerful being(s) are shown doing wantonly malicious acts then they are evil.

The Q don't wipe out civilzations for fun, as far as we know, Junior's angsty shit notwithstanding. From what we've seen the Q are powerful and, with notable exceptions, don't do much at all.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-28 12:53pm

evilcat4000 wrote:The Q does not seem to be evil. They are interested in helping humanity advance forward.

And if we don't advance far enough, fast enough we got wiped out. Some help.

Major Diarrhia · Post by **Major Diarrhia** » 2004-02-28 02:04pm

Q's interaction with Picard is directly related to the Federation's survival. If it weren't for the early introduction to the Borg, Starfleet would never have pushed forward the programs that birthed the Defiant, Sovereign, and Promethius. That probably includes the combat refit concepts as well. If it were't for that the Federation would have been in an even worse position when they instigated the Dominion War. Those programs didn't win the war for the Federation but it baught enough time for Sisko to come into his godhood, which in turn saved the Federation.

Think of it like this, if Picard were to have failed his first test, all the Q would have had to do is say you are unworthy and leave humanity alone. The Dominion War comes in and the Federation dies, all without the Q activly killing off humanity. Alternatively, maybe the Borg come in at the time they were originaly supposed to engage contact but that time is maybe just a little while before the war. So the Federation gets its complacency kicked out but it's doesn't give time to develope the programs. Federation dies again, without the Q lifting a finger.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-02-28 03:56pm

Major Diarrhia wrote:. Those programs didn't win the war for the Federation but it baught enough time for Sisko to come into his godhood, which in turn saved the Federation.
.

Sisko's godhood didn't save the feds. He only prophetised (i was going to say ascended but considered than an insult ot SG-1) AFTER the dominion war ended. His influence with the prophets saved the feds 9n the greatest dux ex machina ever but he wasn't a phrofet himself until much later.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2004-02-28 05:47pm

Wait a minute. Why are the Q (as a race/culture/whatever) above judgment?
Specially since they unilateraly decided what was best for the Federation, resulting in millions if not billions of lives lost.

Major Diarrhia · Post by **Major Diarrhia** » 2004-02-28 06:41pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Major Diarrhia wrote:. Those programs didn't win the war for the Federation but it baught enough time for Sisko to come into his godhood, which in turn saved the Federation.
.
Sisko's godhood didn't save the feds. He only prophetised (i was going to say ascended but considered than an insult ot SG-1) AFTER the dominion war ended. His influence with the prophets saved the feds 9n the greatest dux ex machina ever but he wasn't a phrofet himself until much later.

I really meant it gave time for Sisko. Without that time would he have known the profits well enough to convince them of anything, would it even have gotton to that without even some what effective defences.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-02-28 09:44pm

The Q are well enough written that they could be understood to be the Shylock like charecter of Star Trek in that they are both the Heroes and Villians. Personally I think the Q are more of a neither good, nor bad, just there and having fun.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2004-02-28 09:48pm

They fully intended to wipe out trillions of lives because they decided humans weren't worthy. How is that not evil? Hell, they had a war which side effect was supernovas

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2004-02-29 12:12am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:They fully intended to wipe out trillions of lives because they decided humans weren't worthy. How is that not evil? Hell, they had a war which side effect was supernovas

Were they going to wipe out humanity because they could, or because they believed that humans posed a threat to something (I'm assuming you are referring to the deal at Farpoint)?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-29 12:26am

Warspite wrote:Wait a minute. Why are the Q (as a race/culture/whatever) above judgment?

No, but assigning a definitive label is tough considering the sheer gap between them and the human race. After all, we are to them as ants are to us.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2004-03-01 08:46pm

evilcat4000 wrote:The Q does not seem to be evil. They are interested in helping humanity advance forward.

No, at least as far as TNG was concerned, only the Q who showed up and bugged the Ent crew was even mildly interested in pushing humanity forward. I remember an early episode of TNG where Q revealed that the continuum feared the advancement of humanity, thinking that they would become powerful enough to challenge them relatively soon. He gave Riker the power of the Q for some reason, probably hoping that he and the rest of humanity would embrace it and become dependant on it and thus, on the Q. When Riker rejected it, the continuum roughly pulled him back.

I never really thought of Q as a good guy or someone trying to guide the Federation along. He just seemed like a bored, super powerful entity amused to see what humans would do when confronted with a vastly more powerful foe to me that didn't care about how many would die for his fun. His lectures to Picard always sounded stupid and self-pious to me.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-03-01 09:06pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:They fully intended to wipe out trillions of lives because they decided humans weren't worthy. How is that not evil? Hell, they had a war which side effect was supernovas

I don't believe he ever actually intended that. I think of it in the way military basic training instructors motivate their troops. "You get that bed made or I'll staple your nuts to the wall!"

Obviously, having an all powerful god breathing down your neck would get even the most complacent people motivated and out of their comfort zone. Like the Federation.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-03-02 11:52am

"As flies to wanton boys are we to th' gods, / They kill us for their sport" - King Lear

Try this on for size:

I think in keeping with Trek's humanistic philosophy, the Q are tragic characters, because even though they "have it all" they still don't get it (the meaning of life).

Humans are the best because we are always learning and improving and we always have surprises. Even if they think we "still aren't having any fun" they're the one's missing out by being all-powerful.

For us there's no where to go but up, for them there's literally nowhere to go, since they've been everywhere and done everything. No wonder they're like the depressed bullies who pick on weaker ones for amusment!

So the Q aren't really evil, just prisoners of their own omnipotence.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-03-02 04:58pm

i think the Q look to humans as we look to ants or flies

would you consider yourself evil if you squash a bug?

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