my thoughts on Enteprise

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 07:04pm

Fine, fuck it. I concede, it looks like a fucking Akira. I honestly don't give a shit anymore.

I'll just have this HOSed. Sorry for posting my opinions on the ship.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-21 07:08pm

It's okay to have an opinion. Just keep in mind that even opinions can be wrong sometimes.

Embracer Of Darkness · Post by **Embracer Of Darkness** » 2004-02-21 07:14pm

In Aya's defence, I don't think it looks that much like the Akira class either. Put your pyre and matches away though, because I'm not about to debate something so utterly trivial.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-02-21 07:16pm

Aya wrote:Fine, fuck it. I concede, it looks like a fucking Akira. I honestly don't give a shit anymore.

I'll just have this HOSed. Sorry for posting my opinions on the ship.

Oh for christs sake. You don't have to be like that. You posted your opinion. Good. But you had to realize that some other people would have different opinions and in the case of the Akira-prise an opinion with some backing in it.

An Acclamator and Imperator have simular designs but they just didn't hack the con tower off of a ISD and rescale it for 600m and call it good. Thats what they did to the Akira and called it the NX class.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 07:34pm

I understand my opinion can be wrong and there's flaws. But geez, people act like the NX is a total and complete ripoff of the Akira. Save for that thing between the nacelles of both ships, the other similarities are trivial. I mean, are these so major? They're cosmetic. Hell, I doubt those things even have a purpose. Beyond that, the ships are as different as a Curry and a Sovereign.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-21 07:40pm

Fictional fuction of components does not matter whatsoever in a visual comparion, Aya.

For 60 seconds, ignore and forget everything you know about how either ship functions, and just look and compare their visual aspects against each other. They are near-identical.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-02-21 07:40pm

Aya wrote:I understand my opinion can be wrong and there's flaws. But geez, people act like the NX is a total and complete ripoff of the Akira. Save for that thing between the nacelles of both ships, the other similarities are trivial. I mean, are these so major? They're cosmetic. Hell, I doubt those things even have a purpose. Beyond that, the ships are as different as a Curry and a Sovereign.

More like the Curry and the Excelcior. Only difference is that the Curry and the Excelcior are from the same time era unlike the Akira and the NX.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-21 07:49pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Fictional fuction of components does not matter whatsoever in a visual comparion, Aya.

For 60 seconds, ignore and forget everything you know about how either ship functions, and just look and compare their visual aspects against each other. They are near-identical.

What do you think I'm doing, a one man rendition of Cats? I've been staring at the pictures for a while now. Hell, I've shown the pictures to two different people, one a Trekkie and the other not. Both said that the NX is not a ripoff.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-02-22 02:08am

Well, I was reading the article at EAS about the Akira and Enterprise and came across an interesting idea at the end of the article. The guy who designed the NX pointed out that the design and concept of the "Flying Wing" from the 50s was abandoned for like 30 years before the B-2 was created. Maybe it was the same with the NX and Akira.

This just about covers the trivial similarities for me.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... arrier.jpg

Edit: Found an article written by Jaeger himself.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/nx01.htm

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-02-22 03:43pm

Aya wrote:Well, I was reading the article at EAS about the Akira and Enterprise and came across an interesting idea at the end of the article. The guy who designed the NX pointed out that the design and concept of the "Flying Wing" from the 50s was abandoned for like 30 years before the B-2 was created. Maybe it was the same with the NX and Akira.

This just about covers the trivial similarities for me.

http://www

Edit: Found an article written by Jaeger himself.

http://www

Arg. No one is saying that they shouldn't have simular designs. That is a given because they both work off the same principle (though one is suppost to be extremely adavanced compared to the other). Its the fact that they took one, distorted it alittle, chopped a couple pieces off, add a few more and Wah-La. A brand new ship (thats a rip off).

That pic of a flying wing and of the carrier is showing you that seperate designs that are attemping to do simular things will have simular shapes and equipment.

To this I agree. The new Enterprise should have had a sauser shape (perhaps a spherical shape) and warp naccells, along with other Trek recognised gear.

They didn't do it though. They took an already established ship and streched it, twisted it, and called it a new one.

On that same page, there are examples of BASING a new ship design on the Akira that doesn't rip it off;

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/misc/ ... omment.htm

by Steven Lee

by John Payne

These pay tribute to the original design but don't rip it off. Can you see the difference?

Again, I point to SW. The Acclamator is based off of the ISD but it isn't the ISD with the con tower chopped off and a couple extra pieces glued on. That is what they did to the Akira for the NX.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-23 01:52am

This is why I avoid debating with apologists...

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-02-25 08:59am

The only thing that Enterprise seems to have that is in any way original is the MACO's (commando team that follows the landing party on dangerous missions or helps out on ship board combat).

Basically the "space marines" that Roddenberry originally considered putting onboard the enterprise (have no idea why he decided not to... budget? sudden anti-military attitude?).

The trouble of course is that though they're a big jump ahead of any combat units in all of Trek (the best we ever got in DS9 and Voyager seems to be the bridge crew or redshirts with padded leather vests and souped up phaser rifles), they still wouldn't last long against other "elites" like stormtroopers (no NBC protection for example).

The other problem is that they've really only been featured in a small handfull of episodes (and in that case only one or two episodes show them working as a team, the rest just replace a redshirt or two with a MACO).

What else did they change in season 3?

SPOILERS FOLLOW!

-More treknobabble. Gravimetric distortions, spacial anomalies, time travel, the infamous "reset button," plasma relays, etc.

-T'Pol got some new outfits. More uniform like, though still low cut and skin tight. Pink one, blue one, purple one, etc. Still has a boyish haircut, and still gets slinky for the fanboys every other episode. What do you expect from a female Vulcan who goes through Pon Farr and has Vulcan AIDs? (I guess), oh and she's now banging Trip (didn't see that coming did you?).

-Archer. Actually he seems the same to me. One second he's this hardass who doesn't take any crap and doesn't trust anyone. The next second he's in "Picard Mode" wanting to be this moral paragon and uphold ideals that don't exist yet (arguing with Phlox then agreeing with him, etc).

-Mayweather. He's in less of the show than ever before, more like a recurring guest redshirt, actually. The focus of the show are Trip, Archer and T'Pol. But at least Hoshi and Reed have gotten their "about me" episodes. Mayweather has had one in the entire show, he's more ignored than Geordi was in TNG.

-Weapons. Okay now they have basically everything the TOS enterprise had, except for tractor beams. Their transporter works better than in TOS (they just can only beam maybe 4 people at a time instead of 6), their phase pistols & phase rifles (?) are more powerful and have multiple settings, they have stun grenades, they have MACOs they have force fields (although they still use "hull plating" on the ship itself), "photonic torpedoes" just like the ones in the rest of trek but painted silver, cloaking devices (Sulican ship onboard), etc. Sure the space suites in the early seasons were cool, but remember that the other shows had them too, they just didn't use them much before First Contact came out and had props left over.

And like some past shows (TNG "saucer seperation", "captain's yaht", Voyager "Delta Flyer" I'm guessing) they have something they forget to use all the time, the Suliban cell ship.

What makes Enterprise different from the other Trek shows?

More "sex appeal" (but in the "sneaking a look at playboy" sense rather than the TOS sense), more CGI, the MACO's and few redshirts die.

The notion of "rewriting TOS in B&B's image" is a good analogy.