Bajor joining the UFP

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-30 07:06pm

We don't know what 'minister' in that context refers to. If the society has been purely secular, then the marriages that have a 'minister' could just be a meaningless tradition, still observed by small groups of people. If there were sources saying that people were still baptised or confirmed by a Minister, then that makes better proof.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-12-30 07:15pm

The Aliens wrote:We don't know what 'minister' in that context refers to. If the society has been purely secular, then the marriages that have a 'minister' could just be a meaningless tradition, still observed by small groups of people. If there were sources saying that people were still baptised or confirmed by a Minister, then that makes better proof.

Why have such a ceremony when we already have a ceremony for secular marriages? And why would somebody prefer that over a Starfleet admiral performing the ceremony?

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-30 07:46pm

TheDarkling wrote: Why have such a ceremony when we already have a ceremony for secular marriages?

Matter of personal preference, We're already seeing religious and secular marriages merging together, not unreasonable that they're the same thig by the 24th century. Homosexuals marrying can get married in a Church if they have an understanding minister.

TheDarkling wrote:And why would somebody prefer that over a Starfleet admiral performing the ceremony?

Kasidy Yates wasn't in Starfleet, why would she wnat an Admiral to marry her? Even still, it can come down to personal preference, any of the reasons people choose those other than their parish priest to get married.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-12-30 08:19pm

The Aliens wrote: Matter of personal preference, We're already seeing religious and secular marriages merging together, not unreasonable that they're the same thig by the 24th century. Homosexuals marrying can get married in a Church if they have an understanding minister.

Yes but if religion is abandoned surely purely secular marriages would be the way to go? Homosexuals getting married in churches probably do so for religious reasons so I don't really see what that has to do with secular marriages being preformed by a "minister" who isn't really a minister.

Kasidy Yates wasn't in Starfleet, why would she wnat an Admiral to marry her?

It was about what her mother would have wanted and her Husband is in Starfleet, also what is the difference between Bob the regular guy with a title and Admiral Bill? Very little however between Minister Bob man of God and Admiral Bill there is a difference.

Even still, it can come down to personal preference, any of the reasons people choose those other than their parish priest to get married.

The issue isn't why would somebody choose other than a parish priest but why would they chose a parish priest - either religious reasons or tradition/use of a Church, here the only reason to use a minister would seem to be religious.
Getting married by a secular minister or an Admiral has very little difference since an Admiral is for all intents and purposes (when it comes to marriage) a secular minister.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-30 08:27pm

TheDarkling wrote:
Yes but if religion is abandoned surely purely secular marriages would be the way to go? Homosexuals getting married in churches probably do so for religious reasons so I don't really see what that has to do with secular marriages being preformed by a "minister" who isn't really a minister.

All I'm saying is that it's just a title. The tradition of a Church marriage could be carried on without any religious meaning behind it.

TheDarkling wrote:It was about what her mother would have wanted and her Husband is in Starfleet, also what is the difference between Bob the regular guy with a title and Admiral Bill? Very little however between Minister Bob man of God and Admiral Bill there is a difference.

It's Kasidy's mother- if you had a kid that wasn't in the military, would you want them to be married by a naval vessel's Captain because she was marrying a sailor? Not likely.

TheDarkling wrote:The issue isn't why would somebody choose other than a parish priest but why would they chose a parish priest - either religious reasons or tradition/use of a Church, here the only reason to use a minister would seem to be religious.

Or traditional, without religious significance.

TheDarkling wrote:Getting married by a secular minister or an Admiral has very little difference since an Admiral is for all intents and purposes (when it comes to marriage) a secular minister.

Point conceeded.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-12-30 09:13pm

The Aliens wrote: All I'm saying is that it's just a title. The tradition of a Church marriage could be carried on without any religious meaning behind it.

Sure it is possible but what is the point? Why carry on doing that when a perfectly secular alternative exists? If it is only for the building then in space it makes no difference either way.

It's Kasidy's mother- if you had a kid that wasn't in the military, would you want them to be married by a naval vessel's Captain because she was marrying a sailor? Not likely.

Better an important man like an Admiral than Joe Random the minister.

Or traditional, without religious significance.

Marriage by captains is also a long held tradition, why choose one over the other?

Point conceeded.

If you concede that then you must see that the only possible reasons to favour a minister over an Admiral is religious, tradition favours neither meaning that these ministers are exactly what they sound like, representatives of an organised religion.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-30 09:16pm

Yeah, I actually meant I concede the whole thing, it's a bit silly to say that its got no religious meaning.

I still say that the religious are in the distinct minority on Earth, though.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-12-30 09:36pm

The Aliens wrote:Yeah, I actually meant I concede the whole thing, it's a bit silly to say that its got no religious meaning.

I still say that the religious are in the distinct minority on Earth, though.

Organised religion probably has greatly waned in popularity but most people assume it has gone entirely (Evil Godless Pinko Commies that they are regularly assumed to be) and it was my intention to show this wasn't true.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-30 09:52pm

Evil Godless Pinko Commies... yeah, sounds about right, but I conceded that there probably is a small religious minority on Earth.