I just watched WoK ...

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2003-12-12 06:25pm

Man, Kahn is cool. There were a couple things I didn't quite understand.

I've never seen the episode in the original series involving Kahn. Who is he, and what is his deal?

Why didn't they, specifically the crew of the Reliant, know that Kahn and his exiles were out there?

Was Kahn always crazy?

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2003-12-12 06:44pm

closet sci-fi fan wrote:
Was Kahn always crazy?
He became obsessed with revenge after his wife died from those creatures(the ones in the hamster cage). He was actually pretty rational before this.

That's too bad. He was pretty damned cool in the movie. Thanks for clearing that all up.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-12-12 06:45pm

Crom wrote:
closet sci-fi fan wrote:
Was Kahn always crazy?
He became obsessed with revenge after his wife died from those creatures(the ones in the hamster cage). He was actually pretty rational before this.
That's too bad. He was pretty damned cool in the movie. Thanks for clearing that all up.

You should really watch Space Seed. Some of Ricardo Montalban's best work and you get to see Kirk up against a true keen mind instead of the usual villain of the week. Plus you miss out on some of the best Kirk Fu in TOS.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2003-12-12 09:23pm

Stravo wrote:You should really watch Space Seed. Some of Ricardo Montalban's best work and you get to see Kirk up against a true keen mind instead of the usual villain of the week. Plus you miss out on some of the best Kirk Fu in TOS.

They dropped Khan on a world that was almost completely dead world and he survived for fifteen years! Sweet Zombie Christ, he's a badass. If he'd just reign in his hatred he would have owned Kirk like nobody's business.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-12-12 10:17pm

Crom wrote:
Stravo wrote:You should really watch Space Seed. Some of Ricardo Montalban's best work and you get to see Kirk up against a true keen mind instead of the usual villain of the week. Plus you miss out on some of the best Kirk Fu in TOS.
They dropped Khan on a world that was almost completely dead world and he survived for fifteen years! Sweet Zombie Christ, he's a badass. If he'd just reign in his hatred he would have owned Kirk like nobody's business.

the planet was originally not so lifeless, it was as Chekov said in the Wrath of Kahn "there was life on Ceti Alpha Five, a fair chance..." like stated above when Ceti Alpha Six blew up it devasted Ceti Alpha Five.
My question to you is did you actually pay attention to the any of the dialogue or anything in the movie when you watched it? or were you too busy staring at Ricardo Montalban's chest?

seriously though it is all explained in the movie, go watch it again.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-12-13 01:57am

According to Nick Meyer, the question most often asked of him was "Was Khan's chest real?"

Yes. That is really Ricardo Montalban's chest.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-12-13 02:44am

I can't believe Ricardo Montalban is still alive. He's in the next Spy Kids movie for chrissakes.

"The plane! The plane!"

Oh, and for the record, the line is "on Ceti Alpha Five there was life! A fair chance-"

"THIS IS CETI ALPHA FIVE!!!"

etc.

Kirk & Co. had much hope for Khan and his exiled supermen at the end of Space Seed.

Interesting fact- Khan looks far more fit and formidable in ST2 than in Space Seed (he's got a bit of a belly in that).

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-13 03:02am

Well being stuck on a desert planet with brainbug critters would probably do a lot to toughen you.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-12-13 03:23am

Stofsk wrote:Well being stuck on a desert planet with brainbug critters would probably do a lot to toughen you.

Yeah, but he was supposed to be a superman in Space Seed, so I figured he'd be fitter than he looked. Oh well, must've been the good life:

"On Earth, 200 years ago, I was a prince ... with power and millions."

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-12-13 07:20am

Wasn't Space seed before Chekov's first appearence though? So Kahn shouldn't have recognised Chekov?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-13 07:35am

Crazedwraith wrote:Wasn't Space seed before Chekov's first appearence though? So Kahn shouldn't have recognised Chekov?

Shh! *whispers "inconsistency!"*

It's possible that Chekov was a minor crewman at that point, who knew Marla McGivers personally but wasn't a bridge officer yet. How Khan and Chekov met, or the former recognised the latter, I don't know.

This bothered me too when I first watched it, but I just figured that Chekov was there but not in a significant way.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-12-13 08:14am

Stofsk wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:Wasn't Space seed before Chekov's first appearence though? So Kahn shouldn't have recognised Chekov?
Shh! *whispers "inconsistency!"*

It's possible that Chekov was a minor crewman at that point, who knew Marla McGivers personally but wasn't a bridge officer yet. How Khan and Chekov met, or the former recognised the latter, I don't know. This bothered me too when I first watched it, but I just figured that Chekov was there but not in a significant way.

There is actualy a realy funny joke about that on the ST2 DVD.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-13 08:24am

Chris OFarrell wrote:There is actualy a realy funny joke about that on the ST2 DVD.

Well, don't keep it to yourself.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2003-12-13 03:43pm

Death from the Sea wrote:My question to you is did you actually pay attention to the any of the dialogue or anything in the movie when you watched it? or were you too busy staring at Ricardo Montalban's chest?
seriously though it is all explained in the movie, go watch it again.

You are correct and that the movie explains itself really well. It's just that I've never actually seen the old episodes with Khan so I wanted to find out what actually happened.

And Montalban's chest distracted me at key dialogue moments ...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-13 05:48pm

Vympel wrote:
Stofsk wrote:Well being stuck on a desert planet with brainbug critters would probably do a lot to toughen you.
Yeah, but he was supposed to be a superman in Space Seed, so I figured he'd be fitter than he looked. Oh well, must've been the good life:

"On Earth, 200 years ago, I was a prince ... with power and millions."

Nothing says a superman can't over indulge the same way us regular humans can.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-12-13 06:21pm

Vympel wrote: "On Earth, 200 years ago, I was a prince ... with power and millions."

I thought it was 'power over millions.'

Oh no this means I'll have to go watch the film to answer. What a burden...

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-12-13 06:40pm

The question is of course how could the Reliant miss the fact a a planet was missing.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-12-13 08:33pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:The question is of course how could the Reliant miss the fact a a planet was missing.

The better question would be "How did the federation did`nt noticed the explosion of Ceti alpha 6?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-12-13 09:36pm

Montcalm wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:The question is of course how could the Reliant miss the fact a a planet was missing.
The better question would be "How did the federation did`nt noticed the explosion of Ceti alpha 6?

Was the Ceti Alpha system inside Federation space? It's possible that they dumped Khan on a planet outside of their boarders and simply forgot about him. It's possible that a system event like the destruction of Ceti Alpha Six passed unnotice. If the star blew, and the Feddies didn't notice, I be ashamed of them. But a planet, in a quadrant of billions and trillions of planets might blow up without being noticed.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-12-14 02:14am

Well, and it's possible that the event somehow *gasp* didn't affect subspace, and so any such news might not reach the Federation for many years as it would only be traveling at c.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2003-12-14 07:39pm

What I don't understand is why they would think the 5th planet in the system was the 6th planet....

It would've made more sense if they were ON ceti alhpa 6, and ceti alpha 5 exploded, thus making ceti alpha 6 ceti alpha 5 which would make more sense, at least to me.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-12-15 12:58am

Admiral_K wrote:What I don't understand is why they would think the 5th planet in the system was the 6th planet....

It would've made more sense if they were ON ceti alhpa 6, and ceti alpha 5 exploded, thus making ceti alpha 6 ceti alpha 5 which would make more sense, at least to me.

IIRC they said in WoK that Ceti Alpha 5 shifted into Ceti Alpha 6's orbit.
And then there is the whole problem of we don't know why or how Ceti Alpha 6 exploded. Maybe a rogue planet entered the solor system and began orbiting the star in the solar system after the CA6 blew up and CA5 moved into CA6 orbit. that could explain the not noticing the missing planet.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-12-15 03:07am

The science officer was just incompetent. Let's leave it at that.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-12-15 03:08am

Knife wrote:
Montcalm wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:The question is of course how could the Reliant miss the fact a a planet was missing.
The better question would be "How did the federation did`nt noticed the explosion of Ceti alpha 6?
Was the Ceti Alpha system inside Federation space? It's possible that they dumped Khan on a planet outside of their boarders and simply forgot about him. It's possible that a system event like the destruction of Ceti Alpha Six passed unnotice. If the star blew, and the Feddies didn't notice, I be ashamed of them. But a planet, in a quadrant of billions and trillions of planets might blow up without being noticed.

It was close enough to be a suitable place for the human race to relocate to after the Xindi blew up Earth (see ENT 3x08, "Twilight".)

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-15 03:12am

The movie originally had Chekov reading Kirk's memoirs, particularily the part abou Kahn, right before he went down to the planet.

It was axed as being too contrived.