Carpenter Street (spoilers)

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-11-26 08:25pm

Your standard time travel to modern Earth ST episode. Early 21st century people are cruel, savege, creedy and eat discusting greasy food... yadda, yadda, yadda...

Oh, do I hate time travel episodes. B&B show once again that when it comes time to suck ass, vacuum pumps have nothing on them.

There was one interresting thing about this episode however. Daniels (the 31st century time traveller) said that the history doesn't mention anything about a conflict between Humans and Xindi, he then bables something about the current events being the result of temporal incursions and that it takes time for the changes to ripple through the timeline. My first though after hearing that was that this is might be an effort explain why the NX-01, Xindi war and so on have never been mentioned in earlier Trek shows, but then I remembered that B&B belief that there are no continuity clitches between Enterprise and the other series.

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2003-11-26 09:04pm

Sir Sirius wrote:Your standard time travel to modern Earth ST episode. Early 21st century people are cruel, savege, creedy and eat discusting greasy food... yadda, yadda, yadda...

Oh, do I hate time travel episodes. B&B show once again that when it comes time to suck ass, vacuum pumps have nothing on them.

There was one interresting thing about this episode however. Daniels (the 31st century time traveller) said that the history doesn't mention anything about a conflict between Humans and Xindi, he then bables something about the current events being the result of temporal incursions and that it takes time for the changes to ripple through the timeline. My first though after hearing that was that this is might be an effort explain why the NX-01, Xindi war and so on have never been mentioned in earlier Trek shows, but then I remembered that B&B belief that there are no continuity clitches between Enterprise and the other series.

There is also a possible mention of what triggered WW3 (when Archer is talking about oil to T'pol

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-11-26 10:18pm

I'm waiting fo the time travle episode where the crew gets sent into the past and must kill the producer of a television scifi show so that the two young brilliant and gifted writers can take over and the ideas they present on screen will inspire a young Cochran to develop warp drive. In the end they do it despite 45 minutes of moral wrangling. And then they end it with "In memory of Gene Roddenbery"

You know its gonna happen

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-11-26 10:53pm

Unless it already did.

*puts on tinfoil hat*

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-11-27 12:41am

Should not Earth be all jacked up by 2004? Aside from time travel stuff , this episode was fairly neutral to me. Did not think it was great or terrible. I do wish they would travel back and meet some nice people. Instead of the usual these people are savages routine.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-11-27 01:03pm

When do the Eugenics War happen?

Oh and they have portrayed nice people from Earth's past in Carbon Creek. It wasn't a time travel episode though.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-11-27 01:51pm

neoolong wrote:When do the Eugenics War happen?

Oh and they have portrayed nice people from Earth's past in Carbon Creek. It wasn't a time travel episode though.

They do portray nice people from time to time. But the standard chic is that we are all uncouth savages bent on our own desires.

The Eugenics wars in TOS were supposed to have already happened by now.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-11-27 04:49pm

I wonder why they made it 2004 instead of 2003. Usually the time travel episodes set in the present are set in the year its shown.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-11-27 07:12pm

neoolong wrote:I wonder why they made it 2004 instead of 2003. Usually the time travel episodes set in the present are set in the year its shown.

I think the show is in 2154 (because of the 6 months taken up in the last episode of season 2) so they went exactly 150 years back or maybe they intended to show the episode next year (it is the last episode this year so it isn't that much of a stretch).

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-27 09:23pm

Why do the reptillian Xindi now wear Reman uniforms???

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-11-27 09:42pm

Lord Poe wrote:Why do the reptillian Xindi now wear Reman uniforms???

Because they blew their budget on the insectoid Xindi?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2003-12-02 02:26am

Worst Time-Travel episode. Ever.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-12-02 03:26am

"Everyone loves time travel! Let's do another one of those!"

I wish that were an exaggeration.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-02 11:24am

neoolong wrote:When do the Eugenics War happen?

IIRC, they started in 1996, according to the published materials. I'dguess that they ended around 2000 or 2002.

Of course, then there's the problem with them occasionally making it so that stuff that was "already supposed to happen" might not have, making Trek's timeline rather complicated. Has to do with their whole "our future" mentality, rather than just having Trek be some sort of AU where some things occured differently than for us.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-02 12:51pm

I got the impression that in TNG the history was "revised" (that's the interpretation taken by Ex Astris Scientia website) so that the Eugenics Wars/WWIII take place in the "mid Twenty-first Century" instead of late Twentieth Century as they are said to have occured repeatedly in the TOS era canon materials.

It's a writer revision obviously, because it really dates Trek to say all this "future stuff" didn't happen, so an in-universe explanation seems most likely (ie: alternate universes, parallel dimensions, etc). With all the time traveling and universe-hopping they have done in the last 15 years of the franchise, it isn't too much of a stretch.

This 'there is only one timeline' stuff is stupid though.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-12-02 02:04pm

Voyager went back in time and started the whole computer revolution thing that is where everything in Trek is today.

I just don't remember what year that was though. It could have been caused by that if it was far enough back. But I don't think it was.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-12-02 02:33pm

IIRC the Eugenic Wars were supposed to start in the 1990's and Voyager fucked up the continuity when it had the episode where they visit the mid 90's. Yet ANOTHER B&B fuckup

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-02 02:58pm

Well, it's not like every corner of the Earth is effected during a war. From what I remember, it seemed like most of the Eugenics War was centered around Asia.

But the fact that there was no mention at all of a war currently going on is pretty bad.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-03 12:00am

Why the hell do they constantly write time travel stories? Of all Trek episodes, I can think of two time travel stories - two, in the history of Trek - that I actually liked.

City on the Edge of Forever

and...

Yesterday's Enterprise. (and this one is iffy - it can either be an AU episode or a TT episode, because it has elements of both)

Do they do it just to piss people off? I'm starting to think it's a joke being played on the audience, essentially telling them their stupid, brutish savages who can't stand up to this paradigms of virtue (starfleet). And people actually stand for this shit?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-03 12:11am

It's because they're easy to write.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-12-03 01:35pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Well, it's not like every corner of the Earth is effected during a war. From what I remember, it seemed like most of the Eugenics War was centered around Asia.

But the fact that there was no mention at all of a war currently going on is pretty bad.

From what I remember the Eugenics supermen took over most of the globe. Khan was in power in Asia, so like you said it should be in the news. I also think there should be economic side effects, even if physical damage does not occur in Southern California.

Supposedly 37 million people die in the Eugenics war.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-12-03 04:25pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:From what I remember the Eugenics supermen took over most of the globe. Khan was in power in Asia, so like you said it should be in the news. I also think there should be economic side effects, even if physical damage does not occur in Southern California.

Supposedly 37 million people die in the Eugenics war.

Not only that, but the history from the 1990s were spotty in TOS, according to Spock. So there should have been SOME problems seen.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-12-03 05:12pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Not only that, but the history from the 1990s were spotty in TOS, according to Spock. So there should have been SOME problems seen.

The newer Star Treks' all seem to have perfect records of the last part of the 20th century. Considering how many records are now digital and one day wont be readable or useful, I think a lot of data would be lost.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-12-03 06:07pm

The fact that 31st century guy had no record of an Earth Xindi war makes me feel like Enterprise is actually in line Cronologically with the rest of the shows. The events of ENT are probably something new compared to what did happen in the past on VOY. Does that make sense?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-12-03 06:57pm

Yet. They have no record yet. And the reason that the events are new is because of the time travelling supervillain copout.

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Carpenter Street (spoilers)

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