The Klingons should not exist

[Typhonis 1]

No I mean the ruthless bastard Klingon mentality from TOS not the Spce Viking mentality from TNG

[General Zod]

ahh, my bad. misread what your post was saying.

[Shrykull]

Of course, the TOS Klingons did not suffer from this problem. I'm speaking of the idiotic B&B-ized Klingons of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and ENT.

It was mentioned in the sword of kahless that a group called herc (which means outsider in Klingon) invaded thier homeworld, could they have gotten warp drive technology from them? I'm curious just to how the klingons got into space. They said Kahless formed the FIRST empire (which I guess to mean in this case means land empire on a planet, not a space empire) 1000 years ago, and they are a spacefaring civilization now.[/i]

[Kurgan]

The Klingons are pure meat eaters due to their specialized digestive system?

I haven't seen all of Voyager, so maybe it's in there, but in DS9 and ENT it's established that Klingons "sharpen their teeth" as opposed to having naturally sharp ones.

And of course if we look at prior Treks and the films, most Klingons are shown with normal (human-looking) teeth. Chalk it up to SFX budgets, but I always assumed it was a cultural body modification (like tatoos or piercings or other cosmetic surgery).

A theory that would work better is like the Predator one, that the majority of the Klingon "species" is not predatory, but they simply have a large aristocratic leisure class who enjoy hunting and fighting (like many noblemen did in the Middle Ages) and build a cultural mystique around it.

But yeah, pretty much...

[Peregrin Toker]

Where exactly, in which episode, is it said that Klingons are completely carnivorous??

[His Divine Shadow]

Think the Narns from B5.

The Narns are fucking tough and strong as hell, but they aren't predatory, they're more like humans.

[His Divine Shadow]

I don't know, off the top of my head; could they develope a civilization based on ranching or herding animals to eat instead of straight agriculture?

How do you herd and ranch animals without agriculture, since the animals need to eat and you have to provide grain in order to keep them in a fixed area?

Think it's possible they developed agriculture in response to that?

[Ted C]

I'm potentially shooting myself in the foot by responding before I read the whole thread, but...

Anyway, it occurs to me that this should not be happening because a truly predatory species would never become technologically advanced in the first place. Technological advancement requires some kind of civilization, which in turn requires stable societies rather than nomadic ones. Throughout history, it has always been agriculture which made societies stake out territorial claims, build stable long-term dwellings and eventually towns/cities, and embark upon serious technological advancement. Societies composed exclusively of hunter-gatherers have always remained at an extremely primitive level. And in fact, the conscious cultivation of crops is one of the few things that truly separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

Would it not be feasible for the Klingons to have developed a civilization around domesticated food animals? Even for Klingons, hunting all of the time might become tiresome, especially if you need time to kill your neighbors. Maintaining herds of food animals would in turn require agricultural skills for keeping the livestock fed. This would hardly be the work of "warriors", but even the Klingons must have some non-combatants in their society, and the need for "farmers" would diminish with technological advances and automation.

[MrAnderson]

There is an origin for the Klingons floating around out there for the FASA game that explained that the KLingons were one a slave race for an advanced space faring alien cultuire and they overthrew their masters in a bloody revolt but kept much of their technology. Think the Narns from B5.

And how would they do that, when they're low-IQ morons who would have never developed a viable civilization? Contrary to popular belief, humans wer never ever pure meat-eaters, yet the Bermanized Klingons supposedly are.

That could be a viable alternative or perhaps we are seeing the public face of teh Klingon Empire - its warriors. And the rest of their population are more sedentary and civilized.

The problem is the notion advanced in TNG that Klingons are biologically pure meat-eaters, with digestive systems (and teeth) evolved to suit.

Maybe the Klingons were genetically designed soliders for another race much like the Jem Hadar were for the Founders. Then at some point in the distant past the masters left or were destoyed and only their slave soldiers remained.

[Kurgan]

According to DS9 in Klingon mythology they "killed their own gods" so perhaps this creation myth has parallels in the "reality" of the situation as you described.

Interesting...

Of course their DNA was supposedly "seeded" by those Providers (the long-extinct generic humanoid aliens in that TNG episode).

Though one wonders how they survived after the master left using only their "warrior/predator" lifestyle. I guess we could chalk it up to vast storehouses of supplies, and supplies taken in conquest AFTER a period of revolution (over the smooth forehead culture of TOS).

Perhaps the "warrior klingons" were like the Jem Hadar of the group and the "smooth forehead crafty klingons" were like the Vorta. And a few select "cultural heroes" were either cloned (in more "bumby forehead friendly" bodies) or genetically altered to keep them from being murdered by their racist fellows...?