I found a B&B Borg continuity screw up with 8472

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-11-24 02:16am

Ok, remember when Q first introduced the Borg to TNG? The first thing that the cube did was beam a drone into engineering to scan the computer terminals. After it was attacked, another came, took parts of it and beamed off. The cube's computer then told the Picard that it had determined that the Enterprise's defenses were inadequate to defend itself against the cube. In other words, after they had investigated the ship's computers they proceeded to try and assimilate the technology.

Fast forward to Voyager. The Doctor tells Janeway that the Borg cannot defeat 8472 because they learn from ASSIMILATION, not INVESTIGATION. Since the feddies investigate, they developed technology the Borg do not have (thus enabling them to defeat 8472). Since the Borg could not assimilate 8472, they were screwed.

Anyone see the continuity fuck up here? The Voyager Borg are not only weak but STUPID. Voyager's Borg blindly charge into any fight with guns blazing to try and assimilate everyone. In TNG, they would investigate their targets first.

Here the situation as I see it. B & B overused the Borg. Since they were stale, a new and scarier villain had to be introduced and since the Borg were virtually unstoppable, they had to be changed. The Borg became stupider than ever before to enable 8472 to show up.

Thoughts?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-11-24 02:20am

Another one for the pile I suppose.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-11-24 02:26am

Definately. I only pointed out one screw up out of B & B's entire legacy.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-11-24 03:13am

I found a B&B Borg continuity screw up with 8472

Sort of like saying you found flies feasting on dogshit...

JodoForce · Post by **JodoForce** » 2003-11-24 03:22am

No, sort of like saying you found *one* fly feasting on dogshit

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-11-24 03:41am

Or, I found a maggot on the dogshit out of many maggots that are just going to spawn into flies later...

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-11-24 12:39pm

Superman wrote:Ok, remember when Q first introduced the Borg to TNG? The first thing that the cube did was beam a drone into engineering to scan the computer terminals. After it was attacked, another came, took parts of it and beamed off. The cube's computer then told the Picard that it had determined that the Enterprise's defenses were inadequate to defend itself against the cube. In other words, after they had investigated the ship's computers they proceeded to try and assimilate the technology.

Fast forward to Voyager. The Doctor tells Janeway that the Borg cannot defeat 8472 because they learn from ASSIMILATION, not INVESTIGATION. Since the feddies investigate, they developed technology the Borg do not have (thus enabling them to defeat 8472). Since the Borg could not assimilate 8472, they were screwed.

*snip*

Thoughts?

1) It's a mistake to assume that Janeway is a reliable source of information about Borg capabilities.

2) It's entirely possible that the Borg did try to beam drones onto S8472 bioships to investigate them and simply weren't able to acquire any useful information (since S8472 can easily kill Borg drones).

3) The technologies used by the Federation are pretty common in the Delta Quadrant, so it's not surprising to find that the Borg already had effective countermeasures for Federation weapons without needing to actually assimilate them.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2003-11-24 12:44pm

it sounds to me like they simply assimilated the computer section that they had taken from the enterprise and learned what they could from it. same with sending in drones, they wanted the drones to assimilate what data they could from the ship's computers or crewmen.

Embracer Of Darkness · Post by **Embracer Of Darkness** » 2003-11-24 12:47pm

All this shows is a change in Borg tactics between TNG and VOY.

TNG, the Borg investigate. VOY, they assimilate. *Shrug.*

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-11-24 02:18pm

Superman wrote:Ok, remember when Q first introduced the Borg to TNG? The first thing that the cube did was beam a drone into engineering to scan the computer terminals. After it was attacked, another came, took parts of it and beamed off. The cube's computer then told the Picard that it had determined that the Enterprise's defenses were inadequate to defend itself against the cube. In other words, after they had investigated the ship's computers they proceeded to try and assimilate the technology.

Fast forward to Voyager. The Doctor tells Janeway that the Borg cannot defeat 8472 because they learn from ASSIMILATION, not INVESTIGATION. Since the feddies investigate, they developed technology the Borg do not have (thus enabling them to defeat 8472). Since the Borg could not assimilate 8472, they were screwed.

Anyone see the continuity fuck up here? The Voyager Borg are not only weak but STUPID. Voyager's Borg blindly charge into any fight with guns blazing to try and assimilate everyone. In TNG, they would investigate their targets first.

Here the situation as I see it. B & B overused the Borg. Since they were stale, a new and scarier villain had to be introduced and since the Borg were virtually unstoppable, they had to be changed. The Borg became stupider than ever before to enable 8472 to show up.

Thoughts?

while I see what you are getting at and it makes sense. The assertion made by the Doctor does not make sense. Why? because assimilating changes the orginal product into Borg(meaning something else) so if they are studying Borg what new things can they learn? I am not really conveying this 100% like I want to but do you see what I am getting at? It just doesn't make sense for the Borg to assimilate new tech before studying the tech to see how it works and can be used and assimilated best. That is what the old TNG borg seemed to do. Someone should go spit this error in Braga's face, and say HERE BITCH!!! here is but just ONE error!!! You asked the fans to point one out and here it is!!!

Mutant Headcrab · Post by **Mutant Headcrab** » 2003-11-24 03:17pm

Darth_Zod wrote:it sounds to me like they simply assimilated the computer section that they had taken from the enterprise and learned what they could from it. same with sending in drones, they wanted the drones to assimilate what data they could from the ship's computers or crewmen.

Well, by assimilate I hope you mean examine. When the drone beamed over to examine Enterprise's engineering, it used the console much like any other normal human. No vampiric tubule thingies...

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-11-24 03:38pm

Byu the time of Voyager the Borg are very different. They've losy one of their massive cubes ans generally had their asses handed to them by inferior races. This must have caused the collective to go ape shit and start to assimilate all round them in order to find a technology or skill that would make taking the federation easier.

In The Return by the Gar-Stevens's they put forth the idea that there are many branches of the collective and the Cubes the feddies have destroyed are from one branch and the weak lame assed zombies we see post TNG are mearly a different branch, though in fairness this book also claimed V'ger was a Borg too.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-11-24 04:04pm

By the way.

The quote, that they would not ivestigate, but only through assimilation learn about thier enemy is later conraidicted in Voyager in "Endgame". Remember when the Borg first fired on the armored Voyager, and nothing happened. Well, they then searched systematicly for weak points, and found them, to then again open fire, with a much bigger effect (Voy would be toast, if not for the weapons).

Means that they have learned again to investigate.....B&B suck big time is the conclusion.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-11-24 07:28pm

In "The Omega Directive" we found out from Seven that the Borg conducted their own research into creating and using the Omega Particle. They learned of its possible existence from assimilating other races, but the experiments were done by themselves. Of course they failed, but the Omega Particle isn't the easiest thing to stabilize.

So basically the Borg learn only by assimilation, except when they don't.

JodoForce · Post by **JodoForce** » 2003-11-25 01:21am

When did anybody ever come out and say the Borg learn only by assimilation? By observation, if they were observed to learn by some way other than assimilation just *once*, that means the observations say they don't learn just by assimilation.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2003-11-25 02:57am

You found another goof. Good for you!

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I found a B&B Borg continuity screw up with 8472

I found a B&B Borg continuity screw up with 8472

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