Reconcile THIS!

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-11-19 05:54pm

I just watched BoBW again and I noticed an interesting fact. When Locutus examines Data on the Enterprise, he says that androids are "obsolete" and I believe he also says that the Borg have no use for them.

Fast forward to "First Contact." Now, all of the sudden, the Borg are totally interested in Data. The Queen wants to boink him even. How do we reconcile this?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-19 05:59pm

Pathetically easy. The Queen was purely interested in the codes to unlock the Enterprise main computer.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-11-19 06:02pm

I think it come from the fact that this obsolete thing handed them their hineys and was able to break into their superior computer systems and was able to completely end any chance of victory. So this time they want to play with this new toy(the Lore incident mught have helped this interest too)

Bill Door · Post by **Bill Door** » 2003-11-19 06:02pm

Another possibility is that the Borg are regressing in tech.

You know, this fits in quite nicely with the Voyger Borg...

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-11-19 06:25pm

Voyager would seem to show that they've regressed.

Isolder, I don't think the Lor incident had any effect on the collective. Riker even stated that Lor's Borg were not part of the collective itself. It stands to reason that the collective probably didn't even know about Lor's Borg.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-11-19 06:45pm

Superman wrote:Voyager would seem to show that they've regressed.

Isolder, I don't think the Lor incident had any effect on the collective. Riker even stated that Lor's Borg were not part of the collective itself. It stands to reason that the collective probably didn't even know about Lor's Borg.

Perhaps not but Hugh did get reconnected to the Collective after his interaction with the Enterprise crew and that might have had something to do with it.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-11-19 08:44pm

I think it has been stated before that ships in federation space are separated from the collective. Might need to check again...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-11-19 08:54pm

It's called a bluff.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-11-20 05:29am

I think its because of the fact that Data was purely artificial, whereas the Borg seek to find the perfect balance of Organic Tissue and Technology. He wouldnt be obolete in the traidtional sense, but as far as life forms go (by borg standards anyway)

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-11-20 02:21pm

Uraniun235 wrote:Pathetically easy. The Queen was purely interested in the codes to unlock the Enterprise main computer.

we have a winner...

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-11-20 02:27pm

Well, that was quick. Now reconcile this: In 'I, Borg' Hugh states that the Borg are only interested in technology, not individual lifeforms. Flash forward to STFC where drones assimilate everyone and their brother.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-11-20 02:37pm

Kuja wrote:Well, that was quick. Now reconcile this: In 'I, Borg' Hugh states that the Borg are only interested in technology, not individual lifeforms. Flash forward to STFC where drones assimilate everyone and their brother.

By then Humans have become a recognized threat, so the Borg think that maybe its time to do something about it?

Also, they did take an entire planet plus the population, should be a big source of materials and resources, which not even the Borg can really deny needing.

One more conspiracy theory, the Borg did say in BoBW that "you will disarm your weapons and service us." Seems like they were intent on enslaving the population anyway or something like that, what better way to control their newfound coerced labor than to lobotomize them with borg implants, or something like that.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-11-20 03:28pm

Kuja wrote:Well, that was quick. Now reconcile this: In 'I, Borg' Hugh states that the Borg are only interested in technology, not individual lifeforms. Flash forward to STFC where drones assimilate everyone and their brother.

Well they were running low on Drones... they needed to assimilate drones to fight the remaining crew, and proceed with the Queens plan of building the interplexing beacon. Remember they only assimilated those that got in their way, what is better killing your enemy or turning him to your cause? the latter is much more effective. They never assimilated/attacked anyone they did not percieve as a threat, they let Picard and Lily pass by until Picard fired his phaser and the strike team get all the way to engineering before attacking.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-20 04:46pm

Kuja wrote:Well, that was quick. Now reconcile this: In 'I, Borg' Hugh states that the Borg are only interested in technology, not individual lifeforms. Flash forward to STFC where drones assimilate everyone and their brother.

That's easy. When you've got a Cube full of drones, you don't exactly need any more. When you're a handful of Borg operating in a hostile starship, you're going to need all the bodies you can get; hence you assimilate as many as possible to add to your ranks.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-11-20 07:43pm

Yeah but we have seen a Borg nursery in BoBW. They are breeding their own... Or maybe those were assimilated babies.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-11-20 09:41pm

Superman wrote:Yeah but we have seen a Borg nursery in BoBW. They are breeding their own... Or maybe those were assimilated babies.

This is one of those great questions.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-11-24 12:25pm

Superman wrote:Yeah but we have seen a Borg nursery in BoBW. They are breeding their own... Or maybe those were assimilated babies.

Didn't they have the maturation chambers in Voyager? Which they grew their young in. In the episode "Collective" Seven asks the Borg children why they aren't in their maturation chambers and IIRC explains to the crew that is where borg drones are grown.
Again we something along those lines with the episode "One" where borg nanoprobes and the Doc's portable emitter mingle making the 29th century drone.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-11-28 02:18pm

Superman wrote:I just watched BoBW again and I noticed an interesting fact. When Locutus examines Data on the Enterprise, he says that androids are "obsolete" and I believe he also says that the Borg have no use for them.

The Borg seem perceive Data as merely an artificial intelligence with humaniod form. Given this criteria, he is inferior. Borg AI, as in the Borg queen(also as the Borg Vinculum) controls trillions of Borg drones, thousands of worlds and vessels. The Borg AI apparently does this quite easily.

Data, on the other hand, couldn't even take over secondary functions of the Enterprise's computer system(never mind thousand of vessels, thousands of worlds, and trillions of individuals) without frying the connection, taking on holodeck personality traits, and almost killing Worf, Alexander and Troi in holodeck malfunctions (ref: STTNG "A Fistful of Datas").

Fast forward to "First Contact." Now, all of the sudden, the Borg are totally interested in Data.

No, only the codes he carried in his positronic brain. Given Data is essentially a computer, he should have the ability to delete such information from his system. And as seen in STVOY "Scorpion", the Borg will back off if you threaten to destroy something they are in need of. In that case, the holodocter was ready to delete himself and all information about modoficatios to their nanoprobes, and that held back the collective from assimilating Voyager.

The Queen wants to boink him even. How do we reconcile this?

The Borg began assimilating Data(grafting organic components onto him, making him a cyborg, like the Borg themselves), but only physically since any attempt to assimilate his brain couldn't possibly be faster than his ability to purge the data they needed from him. So, like in STVOY "Scorpion", the Borg had a situation where they needed something, but it could be destroyed far faster than they could capture it. Thus, they were forced into trying to "bribe" Data to give up the codes. Given they were grafting organic components onto him, it wouldn't be surprising the Queen's "seduction" took advantage of other...organic grafted components, which resulted in feedback Data simply could not understand. Thus they were both confusing and tempting him. And according to Data, they came quite close to achieving their goal.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-11-28 02:26pm

Kuja wrote:Well, that was quick. Now reconcile this: In 'I, Borg' Hugh states that the Borg are only interested in technology, not individual lifeforms.

Individual lifeforms, no. New species that could enhance their technological understanding and manipulation of genetics, yes.

Flash forward to STFC where drones assimilate everyone and their brother.

That was accumulation of manpower while also depleting the enemy's. And they didn't go out of their way to assimilate everyone, just anyone foolish enough to get too close. Even Picard warned his crew "Don't let them touch you!".

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Data bitch slapped them in BOBW

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