The highest number of kills

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-19 12:33am

Which captain and ship got the greatest number of kills in Star Trek ?

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-11-19 12:45am

I would have to say Sisko and the Defiant on account of the Dominion War.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-11-19 01:00am

Sadly the Enterprise given her position as Flagship and being an important ship class probably didn't get many kills.

Sisko and the Defiant got kills, but not quite as many as one would think. I suspect that Jellico had the most kills in that war provided he was still a captain.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-19 01:05am

Alyeska wrote:Sadly the Enterprise given her position as Flagship and being an important ship class probably didn't get many kills.

Sisko and the Defiant got kills, but not quite as many as one would think.

Sisko and DS9 got a lot of kills. I think he got more kills from DS9 than he did from Defiant.

I suspect that Jellico had the most kills in that war provided he was still a captain.

For all you know, he was killed on the first day.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-11-19 01:08am

Darth Wong wrote:Sisko and DS9 got a lot of kills. I think he got more kills from DS9 than he did from Defiant.

I hadn't thought of that.

For all you know, he was killed on the first day.

Given his expertise and the lack of it in Dominion commanders, I doubt this.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-19 01:19am

Sisko and DS9 got a lot of kills. I think he got more kills from DS9 than he did from Defiant.

But the DS9 is a station not a ship.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-19 01:30am

evilcat4000 wrote:
Sisko and DS9 got a lot of kills. I think he got more kills from DS9 than he did from Defiant.
But the DS9 is a station not a ship.

It can move, therefore it's technically a ship.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-11-19 01:36am

Darth Wong wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:
Sisko and DS9 got a lot of kills. I think he got more kills from DS9 than he did from Defiant.
But the DS9 is a station not a ship.
It can move, therefore it's technically a ship.

gee, play semantics much?

And refering to the OP are you asking from onscreen evidence or just want us to say who we think probably got the most?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-19 01:47am

Given that Sisko was in command of both the Defiant and DS9 I say he wins it. Although I'm not sure about Janeway.

By onscreen evidence, at least in terms of dialogue, Sisko killed 40 (or 50?) ships in A Call To Arms. He also killed a fair amount of Klingon ships in Way of the Warrior as well as numerous Jem'Hadar beetles throughout the early confrontations as well as the Dominion War.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-19 02:11am

Death from the Sea wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote: But the DS9 is a station not a ship.
It can move, therefore it's technically a ship.
gee, play semantics much?

Gee, too fucking stupid to recognize the difference between technical capabilities and semantics?

IT CAN MOVE ON ITS OWN POWER, DUMB-FUCK. Therefore, IT'S NOT STATIONARY. This is not "semantics".

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-11-19 02:29am

Mike, DS9 might be able to adjust its position, but it's designed to be stationary. How many times in the series did they move DS9? What, twice? DS9 is constantly referred to as a "space station" for good reason. You don't want innocent traders roaming around wondering where the fuck their refueling stop went to.

You might technically be able to call it a ship since it can move, but in every battle it was stationary.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-19 02:31am

Dalton wrote:Mike, DS9 might be able to adjust its position, but it's designed to be stationary. How many times in the series did they move DS9? What, twice? DS9 is constantly referred to as a "space station" for good reason. You don't want innocent traders roaming around wondering where the fuck their refueling stop went to.

It can move faster than the Space Shuttle.

You might technically be able to call it a ship since it can move, but in every battle it was stationary.

There would have been no point moving it in those cases, because it can't move quickly enough to make a difference. Doesn't change the fact that it does qualify as a ship, and that the distinction is a technical one, not a semantic one.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-11-19 02:52am

Darth Wong wrote:
Dalton wrote:Mike, DS9 might be able to adjust its position, but it's designed to be stationary. How many times in the series did they move DS9? What, twice? DS9 is constantly referred to as a "space station" for good reason. You don't want innocent traders roaming around wondering where the fuck their refueling stop went to.
It can move faster than the Space Shuttle.

which means what in the Trek universe? it is the 24th century lots of things move fast than the space shuttle.

You might technically be able to call it a ship since it can move, but in every battle it was stationary.
There would have been no point moving it in those cases, because it can't move quickly enough to make a difference. Doesn't change the fact that it does qualify as a ship, and that the distinction is a technical one, not a semantic one.

IIRC the station had to have thrusters attached to it which it used to move, but I could be wrong there.
Oh and it is semantics, after all I can get a wooden box and put it in the water and call it a boat, but it is still a box. DS9 was designed to be a space station not a ship. Plus I think you took the intent of my post wrong, it was made in humor and jest, so there is not really any need for name calling.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-19 03:02am

That shouldn't matter, Sisko was in command of the station. The OP said which captain and his ship scored the highest kills. DS9 is Sisko's command, or his "ship."

Another matter is that DS9 is technically a spacecraft, and in space you don't stop moving. It wasn't designed to be stationary, in the sense that it'll never move, because in space that would be ridiculous. It has thrusters to keep its orbit stable.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-19 03:07am

Death from the Sea wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Dalton wrote:Mike, DS9 might be able to adjust its position, but it's designed to be stationary. How many times in the series did they move DS9? What, twice? DS9 is constantly referred to as a "space station" for good reason. You don't want innocent traders roaming around wondering where the fuck their refueling stop went to.
It can move faster than the Space Shuttle.
which means what in the Trek universe? it is the 24th century lots of things move fast than the space shuttle.

In the 21st century lots of things move faster than the QE2, but it's still a ship, isn't it?

You might technically be able to call it a ship since it can move, but in every battle it was stationary.
There would have been no point moving it in those cases, because it can't move quickly enough to make a difference. Doesn't change the fact that it does qualify as a ship, and that the distinction is a technical one, not a semantic one.
IIRC the station had to have thrusters attached to it which it used to move, but I could be wrong there.

Oh and it is semantics, after all I can get a wooden box and put it in the water and call it a boat, but it is still a box. DS9 was designed to be a space station not a ship.

If it doesn't need tugs to move it around, it's a ship, and that's not a semantic distinction. Please look up "semantics", dumb-fuck.

Plus I think you took the intent of my post wrong, it was made in humor and jest, so there is not really any need for name calling.

Then perhaps you shouldn't have used your rolleyes icon. The rolleyes icon is a graphical way of saying that your opponent just said something really stupid. If you don't want to be called a jackass, don't act like one.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-11-19 03:18am

Darth Wong wrote:
Dalton wrote:Mike, DS9 might be able to adjust its position, but it's designed to be stationary. How many times in the series did they move DS9? What, twice? DS9 is constantly referred to as a "space station" for good reason. You don't want innocent traders roaming around wondering where the fuck their refueling stop went to.
It can move faster than the Space Shuttle.

Oh yes, that's certainly true, although I seem to be failing to grasp the point of that comparison. And O'Brien sure seemed concerned that the station would break apart during "transit mode" (of course, they had a "subspace field" on at the time that lowered the inertial mass).

Darth Wong wrote:
Dalton wrote:You might technically be able to call it a ship since it can move, but in every battle it was stationary.
There would have been no point moving it in those cases, because it can't move quickly enough to make a difference. Doesn't change the fact that it does qualify as a ship, and that the distinction is a technical one, not a semantic one.

"This isn't a starship, Major. We've got six working thrusters to power us with and that's it." --Chief O'Brien - Emissary (Emphasis mine)
"We used the control thrusters to return the station to it's original position." -Sisko - Q-less (Emphasis mine)

For all intents and purposes, DS9 is a station. It was designed to be one, it's sure as hell used as one, and moving the damn thing isn't something that's done very often. It was moved to the mouth of the Wormhole in Emissary, and it was moved back to that position during Q-less. Sure, you can be really anal about it and call it a ship for the purposes of this argument since it can move, but that's not really very accurate, is it.

I can move. Does that make me a ship?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-19 03:22am

Dalton wrote:For all intents and purposes, DS9 is a station. It was designed to be one, it's sure as hell used as one, and moving the damn thing isn't something that's done very often. It was moved to the mouth of the Wormhole in Emissary, and it was moved back to that position during Q-less. Sure, you can be really anal about it and call it a ship for the purposes of this argument since it can move, but that's not really very accurate, is it.

Why not? It is not stationary, therefore it is a type of ship. A slow one, but a ship nonetheless. The fact that they think of it as a station does not change that. They call the Death Star a "space station" too, but it clearly is not.

I can move. Does that make me a ship?

If you could carry passengers and move on your own power in space, you could be considered a spaceship. In any case, you and whathisname are both trying to argue that the word "ship" was somehow critical to the spirit of the thread (ironically enough, while the other guy attacks me for "semantics"), when no one else is arguing that point.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-11-19 03:28am

Darth Wong wrote:Why not? It is not stationary, therefore it is a type of ship. A slow one, but a ship nonetheless. The fact that they think of it as a station does not change that. They call the Death Star a "space station" too, but it clearly is not.

Good point.

Darth Wong wrote:
Dalton wrote:I can move. Does that make me a ship?
If you could carry passengers

One fat joke and I get nasty

Darth Wong wrote:and move on your own power in space, you could be considered a spaceship. In any case, you and whathisname are both trying to argue that the word "ship" was somehow critical to the spirit of the thread (ironically enough, while the other guy attacks me for "semantics"), when no one else is arguing that point.

Actually...what I'm arguing is whether or not DS9 can be considered a ship based on your now-expanded definition. It can't even move very far from it's position, it doesn't have superluminal travel, it has only control thrusters, it has many docking ports and bays, etc.

In any case, I think Sisko + Defiant alone racked up enough kills to win this.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-19 03:32am

This is one of the most retarded arguments I've ever seen. Is it that much of a stretch to consider the question as "which captain and his command got the most kills?"

I would personally guess that a Galaxy class or some other very large (and, to us, nameless) starship probably racked up a lot of kills, although DS9 as a command probably had the most.

Embracer Of Darkness · Post by **Embracer Of Darkness** » 2003-11-19 12:30pm

DS9 is a station.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-19 01:49pm

Alyeska wrote:
For all you know, he was killed on the first day.
Given his expertise and the lack of it in Dominion commanders, I doubt this.

Perhaps, but we have no idea at all. For all we know of Jellico he could have slipped on a bananna peel and broke his neck before he ever got into battle. We have no idea at all so it's entirely speculation to assume he got any killed.

He might be one of the few decent military officers in Starfleet but you got far to excited about him.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-19 01:55pm

Dalton wrote:Mike, DS9 might be able to adjust its position, but it's designed to be stationary. How many times in the series did they move DS9? What, twice? DS9 is constantly referred to as a "space station" for good reason. You don't want innocent traders roaming around wondering where the fuck their refueling stop went to.

Well, if you want to fuck with em you do.