Voyager's Downfall

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2003-10-29 08:25pm

Where, what, and why do you think happned to ruin one of the greatest potentials that the Star Trek franchise had?

Personally, I think it was the recurring appereances of the Borg - great at first, then annoying and tiresome. It was the same with Darkseid on Superman The Animated Series.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-29 08:33pm

It was the sucky characters and rehashing of tired old plots from past incarnations of Trek.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2003-10-29 08:49pm

Gods, don't forget the frellin reset button.

The ship could be blown to hell one week, and shiny and pretty the next.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2003-10-29 09:46pm

I think the biggest failing of Voyager came when they pressed the button at the end of Year of Hell. An opportunity for a totally screwed ship and half dead crew to actually try and deal with what happened over a long term story arc...

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-10-29 10:31pm

I agree. The wussification of the Borg was a big part of it. Also, continuity went out the window (remember when they hit Warp 10?).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-29 10:34pm

That wasn't really a violation of continuity.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-10-29 10:58pm

OK, maybe it was just bad writing. Sort of like when they found THE ONLY TWO FERENGI IN THE DELTA QUADRANT. 1/4 of the known galaxy, and they find the ONLY TWO. That's B & B in top form.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-29 11:02pm

Those two Ferengi were from a TNG episode where they traveled through a natural wormhole that led to the Delta Quadrant, but collapsed after they went through. In case you didn't know that.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-10-29 11:25pm

I did know that, but it doesn't detract from what I said. Also, how about finding a floating pick-up truck that lead to Amelia Airheart? Let's see you defend that one... haha

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-10-29 11:49pm

Superman wrote:OK, maybe it was just bad writing. Sort of like when they found THE ONLY TWO FERENGI IN THE DELTA QUADRANT. 1/4 of the known galaxy, and they find the ONLY TWO. That's B & B in top form.

Actually, I think that's one of the better things they've done... they actually went back to an earlier series and picked up a thread left from an earlier episode.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-29 11:52pm

Superman wrote:I did know that, but it doesn't detract from what I said. Also, how about finding a floating pick-up truck that lead to Amelia Airheart? Let's see you defend that one... haha

A better one is the Dino-aliens.

All Janeway & co. had to say was that maybe they were mistaken about the species having originated on Earth and they wouldn't have caused half as many problems as they did and they might have gotten some help from a very technologically advanced species.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2003-10-29 11:58pm

~Captain...
~What is it, Ensign Kim?
~I'm picking up something strange, Captain.
~Well?
~It's an alien intelligence and an artifact that is totally and entirely unrelated to any feature from Earth's past, present or future, and cannot be solved by hiring in any 20th century officiandos...
~My...God...

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-10-30 01:13am

Really bad writing, a mountain of implausibilities, plot-gimmickry, idiotic and very artificial "menaces" facing the crew, and lastly a clearly incompetent captain leading an incompetent crew and played out by a cast of mostly no-talent ciphers who couldn't out-act concrete.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-10-30 01:23am

Utter failure of the imagination and courage on the part of the writers, almost from the beginning. Voyager could have been a great series--you had one small ship stranded on the other side of the galaxy with two former enemy crews forced to cooperate, and by the fifth episode we had one big happy crew on an indestructible ship fighting aliens of the week. What a disgrace.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-30 01:56am

True, it should have been the most character and character conflict based show of them all just based on it's premise.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-10-30 02:34am

I think that Voyager's most major downfall was that it was the first time a Trek show featured a female captain and it was a motherly woman with a crew full of young officers who got lost in a vehicle called "Voyager". It should have been called StarTrek: Soccer Mom.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2003-10-30 05:44am

They don't play soccer in Star Trek, it's too competitive!

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-30 05:49am

Jawawithagun wrote:They don't play soccer in Star Trek, it's too competitive!

That's right. They only play the most boring sport in the galaxy: baseball.

Well, that and the occasional alien version of racketball that makes everything fucked up...

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2003-10-30 06:01am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Jawawithagun wrote:They don't play soccer in Star Trek, it's too competitive!
That's right. They only play the most boring sport in the galaxy: baseball.

Well, that and the occasional alien version of racketball that makes everything fucked up...

Well, seeing as their computers can't understand the rules for cricket of course they settle for the inferior sport

And they NEED computers because a human referee would be so much _inferior_!

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2003-10-30 09:37am

Jawawithagun wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Jawawithagun wrote:They don't play soccer in Star Trek, it's too competitive!
That's right. They only play the most boring sport in the galaxy: baseball.

Well, that and the occasional alien version of racketball that makes everything fucked up...
Well, seeing as their computers can't understand the rules for cricket of course they settle for the inferior sport

And they NEED computers because a human referee would be so much _inferior_!

Yeah, instead what we go was a thrilling game of kal-toh or kadis-kot.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2003-10-30 10:58am

Patrick Degan wrote: a cast of mostly no-talent ciphers who couldn't out-act concrete.

Actually, I'ld say if they didnt have such a sucky script writer the lack of brilliance on the cast's behalf wouldnt have mattered so much.

Seele · Post by **Seele** » 2003-10-30 02:43pm

RedImperator wrote:Utter failure of the imagination and courage on the part of the writers, almost from the beginning. Voyager could have been a great series--you had one small ship stranded on the other side of the galaxy with two former enemy crews forced to cooperate, and by the fifth episode we had one big happy crew on an indestructible ship fighting aliens of the week. What a disgrace.

Yeah, I also had great hopes also. I was kinda wishing at the very beginning that by the time the ship finally got home in season 7 (I knew that it would) that the ship would be barely reconizable with all the piecemeal repairs they would have to do during the 7 years on it's way home. Kinda like a frankenstein vessel filled all kinds of alien tech. I also thought it would a a cool cliffhanger late in the series to have to ship fianlly die and the crew would have to use a total alien ship to return home.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-10-30 02:47pm

poor writing.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-30 06:33pm

There is a numbing thematic and stylistic "sameness" to all of Star Trek DS9 and there was a watered-down version of that stylistic presence in Voyager. That didn't help, and it was probably deliberate. The suits in charge of the show probably believed that "thematic and stylistic consistency" was one of the show's big selling points.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2003-10-30 07:09pm

I always thought DS9 stood apart from Voyager quite nicely. In fact, looking over their respective 7 year runs, DS9 had a lot more in the way of character growth and more interesting characters to begin with (Kira, Dax, Odo) than Voyager ever did. DS9 actually did things with the characters, whereas Voyager totally ignored some (Kim, Chakotay, Neelix, Kes). It's a shame actually- early on, Neelix actually had some strong moments (such as when he saw Dr Jektrel, and looked like his head would explode with rage).