the atlantis project

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-10-20 08:50pm

I was reading episode summaries at Ex Astris Scientia last night when I came across the summary for TNG episode "Family". In the episode, Picard visits his family in France while the E-D is undergoing repairs. Anyways, in the episode, he toys with the idea of joining the Atlantis Project, a project to create a new continent in the Atlantic Ocean.

Let me repeat that. A project to create a new continent in the Atlantic Ocean!

Wtf, since when did Earth get the kind of tech to build friggin continents? I don't remember seeing any other mentions of this project. Is there any info about this project?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-10-20 09:00pm

So far as I know, the only mention of it was in the one episode.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-10-20 09:42pm

I wonder how'd they do it though. I mean, would the continent be constructed out of metals or actual earth?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-10-20 09:45pm

The project was one to raise the sunken continent from the floor of the Atlantic, which means TNG subscribed to the Theory of Atlantis. Apparently, in Picard's time, Earth's planetary cartography was drafted by a descendant of Charles Berlitz.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-20 09:45pm

Probably similar to the artificial islands that Japan has constructed, but on a more massive scale.

Now the big question isn't how, but why?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-10-20 09:46pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Probably similar to the artificial islands that Japan has constructed, but on a more massive scale.

Now the big question isn't how, but why?

Say what?

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-10-20 10:22pm

Patrick Degan wrote:The project was one to raise the sunken continent from the floor of the Atlantic, which means TNG subscribed to the Theory of Atlantis. Apparently, in Picard's time, Earth's planetary cartography was drafted by a descendant of Charles Berlitz.

Um, no.

From "Family":

MARIE
And your friend Louis wants you
to contact him as soon as you're
settled...

Picard smiles at the name and the memories it brings...

PICARD
Is he still trying to raise the
ocean floor?

MARIE
Oh yes, he's very excited about
it... he's been made a supervisor
now... as his wife is constantly
reminding anyone who'll listen...

ROBERT
I don't see why Earth needs
another subcontinent.

PICARD
Oh, it's really quite exciting
actually... when you understand
the potential of exploring a new
world on our own planet...

ROBERT
(low key)
Well, I guess I just don't
understand that potential.

........................

PICARD
Seriously, how do you plan to
accelerate the buildup on the
underside of the mantle without
increasing stress on the tectonic
plates?

LOUIS
You really have kept up, haven't
you? The truth is... we don't
know yet...

PICARD
The Enterprise used harmonic
resonators to relieve tectonic
pressures on Drema Four... it's
obviously not exactly the same
problem but...

LOUIS
(interrupting)
You know, it's a shame...
(off Picard's look)
The government's been looking for
some one to take over the
project... a real leader who can
come in and get it moving...
They're looking for you, Jean-Luc.
(Picard reacts)
But I know you'd never leave
Starfleet.

PICARD
No, I'd never leave Starfleet.

There was never any mention in the episode of it being the REAL lost city. All evidence was that it was just a project name under which they were going to produce a new continent. Not raise a sunken one.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-20 10:30pm

How much of a "new world to explore on our own planet" can it be when they're the ones building the whole damn thing in the first place?

Typical TNG short-sightedness...

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-10-20 10:35pm

Patrick Degan wrote:The project was one to raise the sunken continent from the floor of the Atlantic, which means TNG subscribed to the Theory of Atlantis. Apparently, in Picard's time, Earth's planetary cartography was drafted by a descendant of Charles Berlitz.

That's rather interesting, in light of the "pre-Minoan ruins" discovered on the bottom of the former Mediterranean Sea when the Mediterranean Alliance dammed the Strait of Gibraltar in the XX century (ref. The Motion Picture); although the location is definitely wrong (Plato's Timaeus dialogue is quite clear that Atlantis was an island larger than Libya and Asia combined located beyond the Pillars of Heracles), this is more in keeping with recent scholarly beliefs that the legend derives from the cataclysmic destruction of Thera in the Aegean Sea.

PUBLIUS

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-10-20 11:05pm

Publius wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:The project was one to raise the sunken continent from the floor of the Atlantic, which means TNG subscribed to the Theory of Atlantis. Apparently, in Picard's time, Earth's planetary cartography was drafted by a descendant of Charles Berlitz.
That's rather interesting, in light of the "pre-Minoan ruins" discovered on the bottom of the former Mediterranean Sea when the Mediterranean Alliance dammed the Strait of Gibraltar in the XX century (ref. The Motion Picture); although the location is definitely wrong (Plato's Timaeus dialogue is quite clear that Atlantis was an island larger than Libya and Asia combined located beyond the Pillars of Heracles), this is more in keeping with recent scholarly beliefs that the legend derives from the cataclysmic destruction of Thera in the Aegean Sea.

PUBLIUS

Actually Atlantis is pure bullshit created by a single person. It was one of the three great Greek philosophers who created it. There is no single reference of it before this time and most future references are bassed on this begining.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-20 11:09pm

That doesn't mean that it wasn't bullshit based on a similar long ago actual occurance...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-10-20 11:10pm

Aya wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Probably similar to the artificial islands that Japan has constructed, but on a more massive scale.

Now the big question isn't how, but why?
Say what?

Japan has filled in parts of several bays, most notably that of Tokyo, to create artificial islands. Several other nations have created artificial islands as well, such as the Netherlands and US. They however are fractions of a square mile at most, in shallow water, and still took years of effort by vast fleets of dredges and cranes.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-10-20 11:11pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:The project was one to raise the sunken continent from the floor of the Atlantic, which means TNG subscribed to the Theory of Atlantis. Apparently, in Picard's time, Earth's planetary cartography was drafted by a descendant of Charles Berlitz.
Um, no.

Um, yes. Take a good look at the diagram on the display Picard was studying; it is exactly like the maps drawn for the "sunken continent" which are featured in every book written by a member of the VonDaniken School of Crackpots —including the aforementioned Charles Berlitz.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-20 11:12pm

Maybe they designed it to look like the old depictions.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-10-20 11:15pm

Patrick Degan wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:The project was one to raise the sunken continent from the floor of the Atlantic, which means TNG subscribed to the Theory of Atlantis. Apparently, in Picard's time, Earth's planetary cartography was drafted by a descendant of Charles Berlitz.
Um, no.
Um, yes. Take a good look at the diagram on the display Picard was studying; it is exactly like the maps drawn for the "sunken continent" which are featured in every book written by a member of the VonDaniken School of Crackpots —including the aforementioned Charles Berlitz.

Ever think that they might be doing that just for a reference? They obviously decided on calling it Atlantis. Maybe it was their idea to make it look like what the myths claimed it looked like. Other then this sole picture and the name, all evidence indicates they are building up the seafloor, not raising it.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-10-20 11:28pm

But why? I somehow don't think they're doing this for population relief.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-10-20 11:36pm

Aya wrote:But why? I somehow don't think they're doing this for population relief.

Unless of course they are depopulating cities to return the lands to their "natural" state. Of course the Idea of making new Islands is not new nore is reclaming the sea for population(Holland). This thing is possible but the reasons for it are questionable. In real life it would not be done because it would cost WAY to much

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-10-20 11:41pm

Yeah, I heard something about Holland using dams or something to push the sea back. But whats this stuff about Japan creating islands?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-20 11:42pm

The most well-known example of Japan's artificial islands is the one they built for the recently constructed airport in Tokyo Bay some years ago.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-10-20 11:46pm

Alyeska wrote:Actually Atlantis is pure bullshit created by a single person. It was one of the three great Greek philosophers who created it. There is no single reference of it before this time and most future references are bassed on this begining.

Plato's Timaeus dialogue (360 AC) is the first documented reference to Atlantis (which is why its account of Atlantis's size and location is the most commonly repeated). Given that the sophisticated, possibly Minoan, civilisation on Thera was destroyed by volcanic activity around 1500 AC, it is quite possible that this event provided a loose basis for Plato's story, written many hundreds of years laters. Cf. Homer's account of the fall of Troy, probably loosely based on an actual historical event around 1200 AC.

PUBLIUS

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-10-20 11:52pm

Isolder74 wrote:
Aya wrote:But why? I somehow don't think they're doing this for population relief.
Unless of course they are depopulating cities to return the lands to their "natural" state. Of course the Idea of making new Islands is not new nore is reclaming the sea for population(Holland). This thing is possible but the reasons for it are questionable. In real life it would not be done because it would cost WAY to much

Earth does not appear to have many superficial cities remaining, as a matter of fact. The Motion Picture describes Starfleet Command as "a distinctive landmark in this world where so much of the clutter of our lives has been placed underground", and notes that "some museum cities have taller buildings preserved from the industrial past" (p. 38).

PUBLIUS

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-10-21 12:34am

Alyeska wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote: Um, no.
Um, yes. Take a good look at the diagram on the display Picard was studying; it is exactly like the maps drawn for the "sunken continent" which are featured in every book written by a member of the VonDaniken School of Crackpots —including the aforementioned Charles Berlitz.
Ever think that they might be doing that just for a reference? They obviously decided on calling it Atlantis. Maybe it was their idea to make it look like what the myths claimed it looked like. Other then this sole picture and the name, all evidence indicates they are building up the seafloor, not raising it.

Nice theory, but unfortunately the display puts Atlantis right over the course of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge which seperates the North American and Eurasian continental plates. The only way you could get a uniform landmass to rise from that area of the Atlantic is if it's resting upon a contiguous plate which simply does not exist.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-21 12:37am

But you do realise that your version would mean that the lost continent of Atlantis actually exists in Trek, right?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-10-21 01:09am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:But you do realise that your version would mean that the lost continent of Atlantis actually exists in Trek, right?

I believe that is what I said. Unless this is yet another example of the Federation's scientific stupidity, which has been amply demonstrated in too many episodes to dismiss lightly.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-10-21 01:22am

*wonders if Earth had the option of a Mu Project, too...*