"Do not provoke the borg!"

[Keevan_Colton]

Might it not simply be because the continuim had made it clear that Q was responsible for clearing up any messes his son made?
He's a lazy irresponsible prankster so I'm sure he knows exactly how much of a mess can be made with the borg

[Chris OFarrell]

The problem with the alledged omnipotence of the Q is that everything we've seen them do can be explained by existing technologies in the Trek universe: teleportation, illusion-projection, forcefields, invisibility, matter-replication.

And? None of this disproves or proves anything. There is no indication that these technologies ARE used. The 'existing technologies' generaly leave very distinctive traces that can be detected such as forcefields, transporters, time travel, replication e.t.c. The fact that they never do see such traces would appear to argue against it being technology. Though it is true that you could arugue it to be some kind of highly advanced technology beyond that of the ability of the UFP to detect, but we're still back to square one, with no evidence that it is technology and not inanite abilities as claimed.

Even what Q did to the Calamarine in "Deja-Q" is not unprecedented —Flint the immortal had matter-reduction technology which he used on the Enterprise in "Requiem For Methuselah". Matter transmutation is not unusual either; the aliens "Sylvia" and "Korob" had transmutation technology at their disposal in "Catspaw". So did Trelaine, the eponymous "Squire Of Gothos" and the Kelvans in "By Any Other Name".

Yes but unless I am mistaken in ALL of the above cases we had the technology in plain site and easy to see.

The Q may have refined these technologies to where they can tap into and control them through an implant in the body or even the brain (also not unprecedented —see Apollo). But to date there is nothing which definitively establishes the Q as having achieved total mentalism, as is displayed by the Organians or the Metrons.

The best argument against that is the case of Amanda. She was born on Earth as an exile, never meeting the Q or interacting with them. She would logicaly have never had an implanet put into her. Now we know she had unconcesiously exercised her powers with little control, making things happen. YET, Q came specificaly to test her by causing the E-D's core to build up to overload and breach. This test would be suplerfious if she was accessing the power of hte Q through some implant (and you would wonder how the heck she would know and be able to without prior training) as the Q would certianly know quite quickly if she was doing so.

Um, I'm afraid that's not the way logic works. Saying "the Q can do what they do because they're simply able to" is a tautalogy which explains nothing.

Yes but saying 'The Q must use technology to acheive their abilities because we have seen the lower Trek powers acomplish similar things using technology' when the Q have explicitly and implicitly contradicted this, does not prove anything either. WHAT I am saying is that the Q have not demonstraighted any use of technology and claim their powers are inherent to their species means the most *likely* answer is *their* answer.

Furthermore, the testimony of the Q in regard to the extent of their own abilities is valueless as an argument, since it A) depends entirely upon hearsay from people who will not reveal the truth of their abilities and B) fails because hearsay is not verifiable evidence in any case.

Hearsay??!!

Hearsay is when evidence is presented that is not bassed on the persons own knowledge but on a third parties testomony. Are you now saying that the Q's who givie evidence about their power...are NOT a priamry source on the power of the Q??!! Granted I am not saying that we take everything they say at face value, but calling the *Q's* testomony on their powers Hearsay is just plain stupid!

No Q can do anything when cut off from the Continuum; suggesting that a continuous link to their power source is required for the exercise of their abilities as well as their apparent immortality —a limitation which should not affect beings with innate powers.

I'm not sure about that. Oh sure the female Q lost her powers to a lage degree, but I was praety sure that was a result of her attempt to retun to the Continum failing and being injured in the process.

Q powers can be invested in "lesser" lifeforms, such as was evidenced with the Riker experiment; which tends to weaken the case for powers being unique to the Q lifeform's biological or mental makeup.

No it doesn't. It simply means the lesser lifeforms have been raised TO the Q. The Q have shown an ability to change peoples species, create beings out of thin air e.t.c. Its more likely that they were able to change the biological makeup TO that of a Q then they implanted some kind of technology into the lesser lifeforms, taught them how to use it and sat back and watched. Or look at Quin. He was quite confident in being able to hold Q off for an eternity in a 'duel' of powers. And was able to use his powers after the Voyager crew beamed him on board. He was imprisoned for his own good. If he was getting some kind of power from the continum and not his own internal power, why the hell would they have not shut it off? Or removed his ability to access the powers. At the least they should have done this AFTER he got free.

But they didn't. Which again heavily implies its an inborn ability of the Q. Given that they are able to move themselves forwards and backwards through time, reduce themselves to subatomic size, change species like they change clothes...some kind of technological link to the continum doesn't make sense. I mean if they can move themselvs back to the start of the universe and still have their powers...how the heck does that work?

The Q have never shown an ability to affect anything beyond a certain locality at any given time i.e. their trickery is exhibited only in one place at a time, with one group of "lab rats" at a time —and always requires a member of the Continuum to be on-site to perform work.

Have you ever watched 'All Good Things' ?

This is in marked contrast to the Organians immobilising two warfleets while simultaneously projecting a representative of themselves in three disparate locations in the galaxy.

Thats hardly fair. The Q have never HAD a need in any of the episodes to project themselves to three locations in the Galaxy! The Q totaly screwed over the entire Galaxy in All Good Things with their anti time erruption, simply to test Humanity and see how far they had moved.

Also, the Q are not telepathic, nor can they foresee future events or sense things beyond their immediate point of focus.

In Encounter At Farpoint it was clear the Q could mindf*#k Troi whenver they want OR not be seen by her if they chose in 'All Good Things'. They havn't raely demonstraited any Teep abilities but then again they have not realy been in a situation where they WOULD be showign them off.

*snip*

[Patrick Degan]

The problem with the alledged omnipotence of the Q is that everything we've seen them do can be explained by existing technologies in the Trek universe: teleportation, illusion-projection, forcefields, invisibility, matter-replication.

And? None of this disproves or proves anything. There is no indication that these technologies ARE used. The 'existing technologies' generaly leave very distinctive traces that can be detected such as forcefields, transporters, time travel, replication e.t.c. The fact that they never do see such traces would appear to argue against it being technology. Though it is true that you could arugue it to be some kind of highly advanced technology beyond that of the ability of the UFP to detect, but we're still back to square one, with no evidence that it is technology and not inanite abilities as claimed.

Appeal to Ignorance fallacy.

Even what Q did to the Calamarine in "Deja-Q" is not unprecedented —Flint the immortal had matter-reduction technology which he used on the Enterprise in "Requiem For Methuselah". Matter transmutation is not unusual either; the aliens "Sylvia" and "Korob" had transmutation technology at their disposal in "Catspaw". So did Trelaine, the eponymous "Squire Of Gothos" and the Kelvans in "By Any Other Name".

Yes but unless I am mistaken in ALL of the above cases we had the technology in plain site and easy to see.

The point was to demonstrate that an alternative explanation for the alledged phenomena for Q "powers" exists, which has to be considered given the lack of definitive evidence that their abilities are unique to their race alone, that they fail to manifest abilities which can't be explained by technologies or abilities which are pre-existing, and by clear evidence that some of their claims are dubious at best.

The Q may have refined these technologies to where they can tap into and control them through an implant in the body or even the brain (also not unprecedented —see Apollo). But to date there is nothing which definitively establishes the Q as having achieved total mentalism, as is displayed by the Organians or the Metrons.

The best argument against that is the case of Amanda. She was born on Earth as an exile, never meeting the Q or interacting with them. She would logicaly have never had an implanet put into her. Now we know she had unconcesiously exercised her powers with little control, making things happen. YET, Q came specificaly to test her by causing the E-D's core to build up to overload and breach. This test would be suplerfious if she was accessing the power of hte Q through some implant (and you would wonder how the heck she would know and be able to without prior training) as the Q would certianly know quite quickly if she was doing so.

I anticipated your dragging the Amanda Rogers example into this. The example of Apollo can also explain her, as well as her parents —both of them who were Q, who lost their powers when cut off from the Continuum, and who both died because they were unable to summon their allegedly innate powers and abilities to protect themselves from the "spontaneous tornado" which killed them both.

Um, I'm afraid that's not the way logic works. Saying "the Q can do what they do because they're simply able to" is a tautalogy which explains nothing.

Yes but saying 'The Q must use technology to acheive their abilities because we have seen the lower Trek powers acomplish similar things using technology' when the Q have explicitly and implicitly contradicted this, does not prove anything either. WHAT I am saying is that the Q have not demonstraighted any use of technology and claim their powers are inherent to their species means the most *likely* answer is *their* answer.

Circular Reasoning fallacy —and one contradicted by the Riker experiment and the examples of those Q who were cut off from the Continuum and thus lost the ability to tap Q "powers".

Furthermore, the testimony of the Q in regard to the extent of their own abilities is valueless as an argument, since it A) depends entirely upon hearsay from people who will not reveal the truth of their abilities and B) fails because hearsay is not verifiable evidence in any case.

Hearsay??!! Hearsay is when evidence is presented that is not bassed on the persons own knowledge but on a third parties testomony. Are you now saying that the Q's who givie evidence about their power...are NOT a priamry source on the power of the Q??!! Granted I am not saying that we take everything they say at face value, but calling the *Q's* testomony on their powers Hearsay is just plain stupid!

Hearsay in this case is also committing the cardinal error of trusting character dialogue as primary or best or sole evidence, but perhaps the term is not wholly accurate for this usage.

No Q can do anything when cut off from the Continuum; suggesting that a continuous link to their power source is required for the exercise of their abilities as well as their apparent immortality —a limitation which should not affect beings with innate powers.

I'm not sure about that. Oh sure the female Q lost her powers to a lage degree, but I was praety sure that was a result of her attempt to retun to the Continum failing and being injured in the process.

You forget when Q himself was exiled and stripped of his abilities. Also the parents of Amanda Rogers, and Quinn —the Q who was imprisoned in the asteroid.

Q powers can be invested in "lesser" lifeforms, such as was evidenced with the Riker experiment; which tends to weaken the case for powers being unique to the Q lifeform's biological or mental makeup.

No it doesn't. It simply means the lesser lifeforms have been raised TO the Q.

A nice, pat answer which explains nothing. You're rather good at that sort of thing.

The Q have shown an ability to change peoples species, create beings out of thin air e.t.c.

Transmutation and "creation" by matter-rearrangement. Trelaine had these techniques at his fingertips as well and could control them at distance.

Its more likely that they were able to change the biological makeup TO that of a Q then they implanted some kind of technology into the lesser lifeforms, taught them how to use it and sat back and watched.

Q taught Riker nothing, and your "explanation" says nothing whatsoever.

Or look at Quin. He was quite confident in being able to hold Q off for an eternity in a 'duel' of powers. And was able to use his powers after the Voyager crew beamed him on board. He was imprisoned for his own good. If he was getting some kind of power from the continum and not his own internal power, why the hell would they have not shut it off? Or removed his ability to access the powers. At the least they should have done this AFTER he got free.

Then how was it that Quinn couldn't free himself from his asteroid prison?

But they didn't. Which again heavily implies its an inborn ability of the Q.

The Riker experiment contradicts this.

Given that they are able to move themselves forwards and backwards through time,

Unproven surmise, based upon subjective incidents.

reduce themselves to subatomic size, change species like they change clothes...some kind of technological link to the continum doesn't make sense.

Except that these alledged "innate abilities" can be shut off and those subjects rendered vulnerable and mortal. And we've seen matter transmutation before. These techniques are not unique in Star Trek.

I mean if they can move themselvs back to the start of the universe and still have their powers...how the heck does that work?

Premise of the argument as proof —a big logical no-no.

They did not move themselves to the beginning of the universe, if you're referring to the "All Good Things" incident. The fact that their alledged "time travel" leaves no effects upon the shape of reality tends to cast doubt upon the existence of this ability.

The Q have never shown an ability to affect anything beyond a certain locality at any given time i.e. their trickery is exhibited only in one place at a time, with one group of "lab rats" at a time —and always requires a member of the Continuum to be on-site to perform work.

Have you ever watched 'All Good Things' ?

You mean the wholly subjective experience of Picard's apparently becoming unstuck in time which left no trace whatsoever in objective existence and therefore can be as easily explained by the illusion theory?

As a matter of fact, I did.

This is in marked contrast to the Organians immobilising two warfleets while simultaneously projecting a representative of themselves in three disparate locations in the galaxy.

Thats hardly fair. The Q have never HAD a need in any of the episodes to project themselves to three locations in the Galaxy!

We're not talking about "fair" —as if that meant fuck-all in examination of observed evidence.

The Q totaly screwed over the entire Galaxy in All Good Things with their anti time erruption, simply to test Humanity and see how far they had moved.

For which only wholly subjective evidence —Picard's personal experience— exists.

Also, the Q are not telepathic, nor can they foresee future events or sense things beyond their immediate point of focus.

In Encounter At Farpoint it was clear the Q could mindfuck Troi whenver they want

What scene was that in?

OR not be seen by her if they chose in 'All Good Things'.

Assuming those events have any objective reality, that is...

They havn't raely demonstraited any Teep abilities but then again they have not realy been in a situation where they WOULD be showign them off.

Then assertions that they must exist are not valid.

[JME2]

In Voyager, near the end of the series, Q's son put Voyager in front of several borg cubes. Q himself appeared and yelled, very angrily at his son "How many times does the continuum have to tell you: DO NOT PROVOKE THE BORG!"

What do the Q have to fear from the borg if they are omnipotent, as they, and rabid trekkies, claim?

Who cares? It's become one of my all-time favorite Q lines/scenes.

[Darth Wong]

I see that O'Farrell is proudly demonstrating his profound ignorance of Occam's Razor. Some things never change

[Robert Walper]

Debating the source of the Q's power is irrelevent whether it's technolgically based or not. Clearly they are not omipotent, however that is also irrelevent. What is relevent is that every impression and display of the Q's power suggests they would kick the crap out of the Borg, perhaps even just snapping their fingers and toasting the whole lot of them before they even existed. They almost did that to the entire Federation (ref: STTNG "All Good Things"), with the exception that they apparently were testing the evolutionary status quo of humans as opposed to simply obliterating them as an enemy.

[Darth Wong]

Debating the source of the Q's power is irrelevent whether it's technolgically based or not. Clearly they are not omipotent, however that is also irrelevent. What is relevent is that every impression and display of the Q's power suggests they would kick the crap out of the Borg, perhaps even just snapping their fingers and toasting the whole lot of them before they even existed.

So you concede they're not omnipotent, and then arbitrarily state that they're capable of wiping out whole interstellar civilizations because they've performed a few parlour tricks? Justify this statement.

They almost did that to the entire Federation (ref: STTNG "All Good Things"), with the exception that they apparently were testing the evolutionary status quo of humans as opposed to simply obliterating them as an enemy.

How do you know they were capable of carrying out this threat to the letter? Perhaps they could have made the Earth's Sun go nova, but that wouldn't wipe out all of humanity.

[Robert Walper]

So you concede they're not omnipotent,

Put simply, yes.

So far as I know, omipotent is a impossible concept, or routinely taken out of context.

Question: When have I implied the Q are omnipotent? Stating that I have conceeded the Q are not omipotent suggests I implied at one time they were...would it not?

As I see it, the Q are just simply very powerful, with lower limit abilities established, and no upper limit that I can think of off hand.

and then arbitrarily state that they're capable of wiping out whole interstellar civilizations because they've performed a few parlour tricks? Justify this statement.

I suppose irrefuteable justification would be difficult without a detailed analysis of what power's the Q have demostrated thus far, and how they would use them to carry out such a task. The only example I have so far is what took place in STTNG "All Good Things".

The analogy that comes to mind is me holding a pistol to someone's head, then talking them through how to move my hand away and get my finger off the trigger. By your logic, because I didn't shoot them, my capability to do so is in question.

Defending my impression about the capabilty of the Q to obliterate an entire civilization on a whim, with the only suitable justifaction for that impression being an example of them performing such a task, is impossible for me to prove.

They almost did that to the entire Federation (ref: STTNG "All Good Things"), with the exception that they apparently were testing the evolutionary status quo of humans as opposed to simply obliterating them as an enemy.

How do you know they were capable of carrying out this threat to the letter?

There seemed to be no barrier for them to carry out the threat other than the Q giving Picard the chance to figure out how to stop it. They apparently had no problem manuevering Picard into the position to create the threat in the first place.

Perhaps they could have made the Earth's Sun go nova, but that wouldn't wipe out all of humanity.

Agreed. However, I fail to see how that would constitute a test in the manner which the Q were apparently performing one.

[Darth Wong]

I suppose irrefuteable justification would be difficult without a detailed analysis of what power's the Q have demostrated thus far, and how they would use them to carry out such a task. The only example I have so far is what took place in STTNG "All Good Things".

A series of events which appear to have taken place only in Picard's head. Try again.

There seemed to be no barrier for them to carry out the threat other than the Q giving Picard the chance to figure out how to stop it. They apparently had no problem manuevering Picard into the position to create the threat in the first place.

Saying that there was no actual barrier to keep them from carrying out their threat does not prove that they could do it. If there's no barrier in front of my car, does that mean I can do 300 mph?

Agreed. However, I fail to see how that would constitute a test in the manner which the Q were apparently performing one.

Who said it would? Q has a lengthy history of dishonesty and you feel that his complete honesty is a given in that situation?

[Robert Walper]

I suppose irrefuteable justification would be difficult without a detailed analysis of what power's the Q have demostrated thus far, and how they would use them to carry out such a task. The only example I have so far is what took place in STTNG "All Good Things".

A series of events which appear to have taken place only in Picard's head. Try again.

So we're overriding suspension of disbelief? That what we saw happen, didn't happen?

There seemed to be no barrier for them to carry out the threat other than the Q giving Picard the chance to figure out how to stop it. They apparently had no problem manuevering Picard into the position to create the threat in the first place.

Saying that there was no actual barrier to keep them from carrying out their threat does not prove that they could do it.

I'm feeling rather stupid for having that pointed out to me.

Agreed. However, I fail to see how that would constitute a test in the manner which the Q were apparently performing one.

Who said it would?

You didn't. But saying "the Q could do this instead of doing that, without accomplishing this" seems rather pointless, don't you think?

Q has a lengthy history of dishonesty and you feel that his complete honesty is a given in that situation?

I assume no such thing. However, even if a known liar points to the sky and says it's blue on a hot, clear, sunny day, I can't help but believe him.

Put simply Mr Wong, I cannot prove the Q can wipe out an entire civilization on a whim, if your only acceptable evidence is them directly doing so. The only evidence I have that suggests they have such a capability is STTNG "All Good Things". However, you have chosen to override suspension of disbelief and claimed it probably didn't happen except in Picard's head. I'll have to remember that tactic.

[Patrick Degan]

Put simply Mr Wong, I cannot prove the Q can wipe out an entire civilization on a whim, if your only acceptable evidence is them directly doing so. The only evidence I have that suggests they have such a capability is STTNG "All Good Things". However, you have chosen to override suspension of disbelief and claimed it probably didn't happen except in Picard's head. I'll have to remember that tactic.

Except this is not a Suspension of Disbelief issue. Picard's experience appears unique to him, was remembered by no one else but him, and had no effect upon the shape of objective reality. Under these conditions, Picard's experience in "All Good Things" is as easily explained by the illusion theory and is analogous to his "life" as Kamin the Ironweaver in "The Inner Light".

[Robert Walper]

Put simply Mr Wong, I cannot prove the Q can wipe out an entire civilization on a whim, if your only acceptable evidence is them directly doing so. The only evidence I have that suggests they have such a capability is STTNG "All Good Things". However, you have chosen to override suspension of disbelief and claimed it probably didn't happen except in Picard's head. I'll have to remember that tactic.

Except this is not a Suspension of Disbelief issue. Picard's experience appears unique to him, was remembered by no one else but him, and had no effect upon the shape of objective reality. Under these conditions, Picard's experience in "All Good Things" is as easily explained by the illusion theory and is analogous to his "life" as Kamin the Ironweaver in "The Inner Light".

In "The Inner Light", we have conclusive evidence that what Picard experienced wasn't real, in the form that his body is observed still on the bridge during his experience and such. However, your overall point is well taken.

I take it then invoking Occam's Razor will be the next step of Mr Wong's arguement. Since it is simpler that Picard just imagined the experience as opposed to the Q having the power to manipulate time and space effectively, we have to stick to that theory(not that I will).

In this case, I merely suggest Ocam's Razor is overly applied to this arguement. However, I'll leave it at that.

[Ted C]

My, this thread is getting fun.

We have some known limits to Q capabilities:

• "Deja Q" demonstrated that one Q is no match for the rest of the Q civilization, since they were able to strip one of their members of power. Stripped of power, Q was as vulnerable and mortal as any human.
• "Death Wish" demonstrated that, even without removing a Q's powers, other Q can confine one of their number in such a way that the prisoner needs outside help to escape. It also demonstrated that a Q apparently can't commit suicide without help.
• "The Q and the Grey" demonstrated that the Q can kill each other, and that they can even provide humans with "weapons" capable of killing the Q. The reference to "weaponry" is the first indication that Q powers might involve some sort of technology. The episode also demonstrated that a Q can be rendered powerless without the direct action of other Q, becoming essentially mortal in the process.
• "Q-Less" demonstrated that the Q can apparently be surprised, since Q seemingly didn't expect Sisko to punch back during the "boxing" illusion.
• "Hide and Q" demonstrated that Q powers apparently aren't restricted only to members of the Q "species", since they were able to grant Q (or Q-like) powers to Riker.
• "True Q" more incidents of Q being vulnerable to acts of violence from other Q.

Once consistent pattern is that the Q seldom seem to be in danger from anything except other Q. It's pretty conclusive that they can transport objects at least the size of a Galaxy-class starship over distances of thousands of light-years in a matter of seconds, and they can apparently cause supernovas just as collateral damage from their own internal conflicts. Many of their other abilities (such as time travel) are less certain, since much of what they do is apparently illusion (as seen in "Qpid" and "Tapestry").

They clearly aren't omnipotent, both because they're vulnerable to the actions of other Q and because Q said (in "Hide and Q" I believe) that they foresaw a time when humans might surpass them. They don't seem to be omniscient either; in addition to other apparent surprises, why construct an elaborate test for Picard in "All Good Things" if they already know the outcome?

[The Kernel]

Simply having the ability of time travel (which the Q are known to have from the Voyager episode with Quinn where they went back through time to the Universe's beginnings) shows that the Q could easily wipe out humanity if they wished. Use your imagination: going back through time and stopping the asteroid impact from 65 million years ago would do quite nicely and is well within the Q's abilities. This would have the effect of not allowing humans to even evolve on Earth, and there are millions of other possible historical origin points that the Q could mess with.

[Ted C]

Simply having the ability of time travel (which the Q are known to have from the Voyager episode with Quinn where they went back through time to the Universe's beginnings) shows that the Q could easily wipe out humanity if they wished. Use your imagination: going back through time and stopping the asteroid impact from 65 million years ago would do quite nicely and is well within the Q's abilities. This would have the effect of not allowing humans to even evolve on Earth, and there are millions of other possible historical origin points that the Q could mess with.

Except we've already determined that travelling into the past and altering events only creates alternate timelines. There's nothing to suggest that time-travelling Q would fare any differently. They would simply create a timeline in which the K-T impact never occurred. In Trek continuity, that would probably mean that the Voth remained on Earth and dominated the Alpha Quadrant instead of migrating to the Delta Quadrant. The original timeline that this theoretical Q interloper left behind would still exist, however.

[Robert Walper]

My, this thread is getting fun.

We have some known limits to Q capabilities:

• "Deja Q" demonstrated that one Q is no match for the rest of the Q civilization, since they were able to strip one of their members of power. Stripped of power, Q was as vulnerable and mortal as any human.

It should be noted that Q did mention he made the choice to become human(as opposed to merely being human when stripped of powers), relying on their rather merciful nature to protect him from species that would seek him out to enact revernge. It sounded like he could have existed in exile as any species he chose.

Further evidence for your arguement would be the Q Continium executing Amanda Rogers parents, both of them Q.

[*]"Death Wish" demonstrated that, even without removing a Q's powers, other Q can confine one of their number in such a way that the prisoner needs outside help to escape. It also demonstrated that a Q apparently can't commit suicide without help.

That same episode also established that Quinn's ability to use his powers was "rusty", as he made the entire male crew complement of Voyager disappear unintentionally, and then couldn't "remember" how to bring them back.

[*]"The Q and the Grey" demonstrated that the Q can kill each other, and that they can even provide humans with "weapons" capable of killing the Q. The reference to "weaponry" is the first indication that Q powers might involve some sort of technology. The episode also demonstrated that a Q can be rendered powerless without the direct action of other Q, becoming essentially mortal in the process.

To your last line there Ted, the war going on by the Q was direct action on their part, and apparently that's the reason she temporarily lost her powers.

[*]"Q-Less" demonstrated that the Q can apparently be surprised, since Q seemingly didn't expect Sisko to punch back during the "boxing" illusion.
[*]"Hide and Q" demonstrated that Q powers apparently aren't restricted only to members of the Q "species", since they were able to grant Q (or Q-like) powers to Riker.
[*]"True Q" more incidents of Q being vulnerable to acts of violence from other Q.[/list]

Once consistent pattern is that the Q seldom seem to be in danger from anything except other Q. It's pretty conclusive that they can transport objects at least the size of a Galaxy-class starship over distances of thousands of light-years in a matter of seconds, and they can apparently cause supernovas just as collateral damage from their own internal conflicts. Many of their other abilities (such as time travel) are less certain, since much of what they do is apparently illusion (as seen in "Qpid" and "Tapestry").

They clearly aren't omnipotent, both because they're vulnerable to the actions of other Q and because Q said (in "Hide and Q" I believe) that they foresaw a time when humans might surpass them.

Note: Q may have just been flattering Riker.

They don't seem to be omniscient either; in addition to other apparent surprises, why construct an elaborate test for Picard in "All Good Things" if they already know the outcome?

Agreed.

[Ted C]

Further evidence for your arguement would be the Q Continium executing Amanda Rogers parents, both of them Q.

An addendum to that point: according to Q's statements in that episode, her parents still had their powers, but they had sworn not to use them. When they were unable to keep that oath, the rest of the Q destroyed them.

[*]"The Q and the Grey" demonstrated that a Q can be rendered powerless without the direct action of other Q, becoming essentially mortal in the process.

To your last line there Ted, the war going on by the Q was direct action on their part, and apparently that's the reason she temporarily lost her powers.

This is an episode of Voyager that I actually did watch, so I know what I'm talking about. There is nothing to suggest that anyone in the Q continuum was actually targeting the female Q with an attack or specifically acting to nullify her powers. Her power loss was evidently an accident caused by some kind of collateral damage in the Q conflict. We can therefore conclude that it was an indirect effect of the Q fighting.

[Robert Walper]

To your last line there Ted, the war going on by the Q was direct action on their part, and apparently that's the reason she temporarily lost her powers.

This is an episode of Voyager that I actually did watch, so I know what I'm talking about. There is nothing to suggest that anyone in the Q continuum was actually targeting the female Q with an attack or specifically acting to nullify her powers. Her power loss was evidently an accident caused by some kind of collateral damage in the Q conflict. We can therefore conclude that it was an indirect effect of the Q fighting.

Agreed. I merely meant to suggest that even indirectly, her powers were still lost only to other Q beings with Q powers performing actions of Q magnitude.

[Ted C]

Agreed. I merely meant to suggest that even indirectly, her powers were still lost only to other Q beings with Q powers performing actions of Q magnitude.

True, we don't have any known instances of the Q being affected by forces that originate outside the Continuum. The fact that she was de-powered as an indirect effect does raise the possiblity that some kind of power infrastructure exists to provide the Q with power when they're outside the continuum, and that infrastructure can be damaged during internal conflicts. For example, all Q outside of the Continuum might have been powerless during this incident.