Enterprise 301 "The Xindi" *Spoilers*

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-09-15 02:50am

Well damn, now I am going to just have to grit my teeth and lift my ban on it so I can see these so called MACO's and their supposed 'real like tactics'. Damn you all.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-09-15 02:59am

Knife wrote:Well damn, now I am going to just have to grit my teeth and lift my ban on it so I can see these so called MACO's and their supposed 'real like tactics'. Damn you all.

I don't know about "real" but they didn't just stand around blazeing away. They also did better than hide behind the convienent barrel and blaze away.

They actually appeared to aim, shoot and generally hit what they were aiming at.

One of them did get into a bit of hand-to-hand and it was much better than the standard TNG "knee to the stomach, double fist to the back" combat move.

I enjoyed the episode, even the T'Pol/Trip scene although it almost seemed out of place and a bit contrived.

TOS took a lot of risks, when was the last time "TreK" took some big risks?
They really haven't done anything that hasn't been done on standard "Prime Time" and they are running behind a bit in some cases (NYPD Blue for instance).

I thought this episode seemed, in general, a lot better thought out and produced than what we've come to expect from Trek. It will be interesting to see if they can keep it up or if this is going to be spotty like Voyager.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-15 03:07am

Well I'll be damned. I finally saw Ent 301.

And you know what? It was good. I think I'll watch it again when rerun season comes around.

Holy shit.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-09-15 03:15am

I don't know about "real" but they didn't just stand around blazeing away. They also did better than hide behind the convienent barrel and blaze away.

They actually appeared to aim, shoot and generally hit what they were aiming at.

One of them did get into a bit of hand-to-hand and it was much better than the standard TNG "knee to the stomach, double fist to the back" combat move.

Meh, like I said, now I'll have to see it to see if it should be classified with 'Seige of AR115' (or whatever number it was) or if it actually was done well.

I enjoyed the episode, even the T'Pol/Trip scene although it almost seemed out of place and a bit contrived.

Meh, T'pol is a horrible character and the blatent hormone baiting is insulting. Though, Jolene is a pretty enough lady, I can check out the important scenes on the net and I don't have to suffer though 60 minutes of tripe to catch it.

I suppose though, reading the thread, that it is remotely possible that Enterprise could become watchable. (I did watch the first season and perhaps a third of the second before I gave up on it.)

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-15 03:20am

Watch this episode.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-09-15 04:12am

Knife wrote: Meh, like I said, now I'll have to see it to see if it should be classified with 'Seige of AR115' (or whatever number it was) or if it actually was done well.

Much better than that and there's no slow-mo. At least none that I can recall.

Knife wrote: Meh, T'pol is a horrible character and the blatent hormone baiting is insulting. Though, Jolene is a pretty enough lady, I can check out the important scenes on the net and I don't have to suffer though 60 minutes of tripe to catch it.

Well, if you're already watching it and it just happens to be there. Where's the harm?

Knife wrote:I suppose though, reading the thread, that it is remotely possible that Enterprise could become watchable. (I did watch the first season and perhaps a third of the second before I gave up on it.)

I'm waiting to see if they can keep it up but I'll be watching the next episode.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-09-15 07:05am

Howedar wrote:Watch this episode.

*runs franticlly to go and check the temperature in hell.

Dammit! who blew out the pilot light!

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2003-09-15 03:04pm

The season finale from year 2 was the turn around point I think.

If they were able to go back to the first 2 seasons and re-write it with Archer's character behaving as he does now I think you would have a much better series. I can think of that episode in particular where he helps some colonists "whip" some klingons, but then allows those klingons to live despite the fact that they would likely bombard the colonist from orbit.

Season 3's Blood N Guts Archer probably would've killed all the klingons on the ground and blew their freighter out of orbit. Would've made for a much more interesting episode

.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-09-15 03:10pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Howedar wrote:Watch this episode.
*runs franticlly to go and check the temperature in hell.

Dammit! who blew out the pilot light!

It was an interesting episode but Hell hasn't freezed over yet....
The Chicago Cubs haven't won the world series and the New Orleans Saints haven't won the Superbowl yet.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2003-09-15 03:13pm

Cubs are almost in the playoffs though...

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-09-15 03:15pm

Admiral_K wrote:Cubs are almost in the playoffs though...

[Kirk]Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/Kirk]

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-15 08:57pm

Isolder74 wrote:
Admiral_K wrote:Cubs are almost in the playoffs though...
[Kirk]Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/Kirk]

Bite me.

GO CUBBIES!

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-09-15 11:10pm

Ender wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:
Admiral_K wrote:Cubs are almost in the playoffs though...
[Kirk]Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/Kirk]
Bite me.

GO CUBBIES!

I agree but am reluctant for the world to end.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-09-16 06:58am

Ender wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:
Admiral_K wrote:Cubs are almost in the playoffs though...
[Kirk]Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/Kirk]
Bite me.

GO CUBBIES!

bah! the Cubbies have to go through Boston first!

No-mahhhhh!

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-09-16 07:37am

Spam is bad- desist or I will lock.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-09-16 09:19am

with the exception of the backrub scene it wasn't all that bad. for a Enterprise episode it turned out quite good. The only problem i see is this wouldn't have been better to show us the Romulon War that had lead to the formation of the Federation in the first place? This would have been better than creating a whole new alein race and then implying that the species gets completely wiped out because that can be the only reason that we would never hear of them again which implies complete genocide.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2003-09-16 01:29pm

Romulan War's not supposed to star for a few years, I don't think. Am I the only one who likes the 'time travel turns everything on it's head' concept of Enterprise? Sure a series about the Romulan War would've been really interesting, but this still has potential, and the Xindi plotline is the first inkling of that potential. Of course I think B&B are gonna screw it up, but at least we got one good episode out of it so far.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-09-16 07:39pm

Isolder74 wrote:with the exception of the backrub scene it wasn't all that bad. for a Enterprise episode it turned out quite good. The only problem i see is this wouldn't have been better to show us the Romulon War that had lead to the formation of the Federation in the first place? This would have been better than creating a whole new alein race and then implying that the species gets completely wiped out because that can be the only reason that we would never hear of them again which implies complete genocide.

Actually, the same problem applies to Dr. Phneelix's species. As friendly as they appear to be with the Vulcans (they participate in Vulcan's Interspecies Medical Exchange, and more than likely that's not their single tie) you would think we'd hear of them at least once in the 23rd or 24th century. Nope. Nothing. So apparently the Notromulans (whatever it is they're called) also disappear completely off the radar.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-17 07:55am

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Actually, the same problem applies to Dr. Phneelix's species. As friendly as they appear to be with the Vulcans (they participate in Vulcan's Interspecies Medical Exchange, and more than likely that's not their single tie) you would think we'd hear of them at least once in the 23rd or 24th century. Nope. Nothing. So apparently the Notromulans (whatever it is they're called) also disappear completely off the radar.

Well, maybe the Denobulans are a result of human time-travellers too, who travel back in time and interbreed with the Cardassians thus explaning why Phlox bears a vague resemblance to the Cardassians??

Or maybe the Denobulans were massacred en masse by an aggressor species such as the Romulans or Klingons?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-09-17 09:41am

We didn't see many of the TOS races in TNG+ did they die out or perhaps do we accept that not seeing every single race again is not a continuity breach.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-09-17 01:22pm

TheDarkling wrote:We didn't see many of the TOS races in TNG+ did they die out or perhaps do we accept that not seeing every single race again is not a continuity breach.

No, we don't see the TOS races much in TNG+ -- but we do at least hear about them from time to time in dialogue, suggesting that they're still around and active, our protagonists simply don't run into them.

Since we never even hear the word "Denobulan" anywhere in the 23rd or 24th centuries, it seems rational that either they just disappeared off the face of the quadrant and nobody noticed (unlikely since they clearly have a cooperative relationship with Vulcan -- and indirectly with Earth -- in Archer's time) or some cataclysm happened to the Denobulans, or some very bitter conflict arose between the Denobulans and the Federation-member-planets-to-be. Either way, a species with ties to an early major Alpha Quadrant power shouldn't just disappear without any explanation at all. That's cheating.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-09-17 01:24pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote: Or maybe the Denobulans were massacred en masse by an aggressor species such as the Romulans or Klingons?

Or maybe the Denobulans experimented with Eugenics like humans did, and the resulting "super-Denobulans" -- stronger, faster, more cunning -- slaughtered their non-enhanced forebears in a "Great Purge" of sorts, and renamed the Denobulan homeworld, "Cardassia Prime."

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-17 02:03pm

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote: Or maybe the Denobulans were massacred en masse by an aggressor species such as the Romulans or Klingons?
Or maybe the Denobulans experimented with Eugenics like humans did, and the resulting "super-Denobulans" -- stronger, faster, more cunning -- slaughtered their non-enhanced forebears in a "Great Purge" of sorts, and renamed the Denobulan homeworld, "Cardassia Prime."

This does indeed explain the way that Cardassians and Denobulans resemble each other - but if that's the case, then why does the Cardassians look more reptilian than the Denobulans??

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-09-17 02:49pm

No, we don't see the TOS races much in TNG+ -- but we do at least hear about them from time to time in dialogue, suggesting that they're still around and active, our protagonists simply don't run into them.

What race was the Fed Precident in ST VI and where in TNG+ are they mentioned, what about the Cat people in ST IV when are they mentioned in TNG+ and so on.

In the Chase we are told that there are 17 non Federation members onboard the Entprise, if we haven't even seen them and this is the ships exploits we follow who can we expect to see other races, prehaps Denobulans don't serve in Starfleet and are a long way from Bajor in which case not seeing them is easily explained.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-09-18 11:31am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote: Or maybe the Denobulans were massacred en masse by an aggressor species such as the Romulans or Klingons?
Or maybe the Denobulans experimented with Eugenics like humans did, and the resulting "super-Denobulans" -- stronger, faster, more cunning -- slaughtered their non-enhanced forebears in a "Great Purge" of sorts, and renamed the Denobulan homeworld, "Cardassia Prime."
This does indeed explain the way that Cardassians and Denobulans resemble each other - but if that's the case, then why does the Cardassians look more reptilian than the Denobulans??

Maybe part of their Eugenics program was developing tougher bone structure (thicker cranial and facial bone structure) and thicker, tougher skin. There's a human skin condition called eczema, a symptom of which is patches of hard, almost scaly dermis. Maybe the Cardassians aren't really reptilian after all, just gifted with very tough skin that acts as a kind of natural armor.

Another (possible) explanation is that Cardassian physiology is a mix'n'match of modern Denobulan physiology with a previous version of that physiology, like using genetic manipulation to produce humans with a mixture of Sapiens Sapiens features and Sapiens Neanderthalis features. Scientifically, that explanation is total crap -- but even if most of the fans knew that, they probably wouldn't care.

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Enterprise 301 "The Xindi" Spoilers