French Heat Wave Deathtoll surpasses 15,000

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-09 07:02pm

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030909_947.html

Wow...

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-09-09 07:11pm

While it was said that even the nights were blazing hot, why didn't more of them take lots of water or get into a cold bath?

And why would one of the top economies in the world not have an abundance of air conditioners?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-09-09 07:15pm

Shinova wrote:While it was said that even the nights were blazing hot, why didn't more of them take lots of water or get into a cold bath?

And why would one of the top economies in the world not have an abundance of air conditioners?

This might come as a cultural shock to you, but AC's are quite uncommon over here.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-09-09 07:16pm

Shinova wrote:While it was said that even the nights were blazing hot, why didn't more of them take lots of water or get into a cold bath??

Most did. Old people don't think so quickly, and death comes fast in these cases (together with loss of senses, if you're alone you're dead, and they were alone)

And why would one of the top economies in the world not have an abundance of air conditioners?

Because they don't need it, temperatures never get that high. At least, until this year. In Portugal, we have a hotter climate, so despite being poorer we have more AC devices per capita than the French or English, and we're better adapted to the heat.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-09-09 07:17pm

Wait a minute, it only got to 104 degrees, and people died. I was digging trenches in 115 degree heat index heat for 5 or 6 hours without a break. I am still as alive as before. Don't these people have common sense. Is it not taught in france that all you have to do is drink when your thirsty and to stay cool. I know they have gatorade in france.
Thats my little rant. Go about on your business.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-09-09 07:19pm

And why would one of the top economies in the world not have an abundance of air conditioners?

When I was in Britian, they were raving about the 'absurdly hot' 80-degree tempetures, while Philadelphia was regularly hitting 95.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-09-09 07:25pm

Dark Hellion wrote:Wait a minute, it only got to 104 degrees, and people died. I was digging trenches in 115 degree heat index heat for 5 or 6 hours without a break. I am still as alive as before. Don't these people have common sense. Is it not taught in france that all you have to do is drink when your thirsty and to stay cool. I know they have gatorade in france.

Unless you're an eighty years old man with a fragile health, I'm really not that impressed. Do you imagine 20 years old french dying horribly of heat? That's not what happened. The old and the sick died.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-09 07:28pm

I like how the government tried to foist this one on the relatives who left their parents alone and went vacationing. As if their kids had any clue it was going to be this bad. The government knew this was a crisis, knew people were dropping like flies and basically did nothing until it was time to count the bodies.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-09-09 07:29pm

OK. So, my Granfather is 78, he mows the lawn everyday, even when its 105 out. He doesn't die. He's not in good shape either, his knees barely work. This is an example of a culture that is just completely clueless on any eventuality of life, and governments that are too worried with saving there ass, and looking good, then to tell the elderly to put the fucking wine down and get a bottle of fucking evian spring water.
There, rant 2 over.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-09-09 07:32pm

How long until the Democratic Underground suggets America is using a weather control device, as previously stated in the previous thread discussing the heat wave.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-09-09 07:34pm

Stravo wrote:I like how the government tried to foist this one on the relatives who left their parents alone and went vacationing. As if their kids had any clue it was going to be this bad. The government knew this was a crisis, knew people were dropping like flies and basically did nothing until it was time to count the bodies.

That's true, the same (in a lesser degree) happened here. But I still don't know the answer to "what would you do if you were the government?"

Broadcast TV warnings? People ignore them, they're not exactly new. Force people out of their homes into shopping malls? Not pratical.. The only easy to think of thing they should have done was preparing the hospitals and ensure the necessary staff for the foreseable increase of medical urgencies.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-09 07:38pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:
Stravo wrote:I like how the government tried to foist this one on the relatives who left their parents alone and went vacationing. As if their kids had any clue it was going to be this bad. The government knew this was a crisis, knew people were dropping like flies and basically did nothing until it was time to count the bodies.
That's true, the same (in a lesser degree) happened here. But I still don't know the answer to "what would you do if you were the government?"

Broadcast TV warnings? People ignore them, they're not exactly new. Force people out of their homes into shopping malls? Not pratical.. The only easy to think of thing they should have done was preparing the hospitals and ensure the necessary staff for the foreseable increase of medical urgencies.

Here in NYC there are community centers for the elderly when the heat gets to be bad, the centers offer ice water and air conditioning for the elderly to spend the day until the heat wave is over. Thats just the bare minimum of what could have been done. Provide cooling centers and let the people know. If they're too fucking stupid not to see how nasty and hot it is then it's on them. I saw none of this being done anywhere in France from the news reports I watched and read. The government sort of shrugged and said C'est la Vie and in typical French fashion began to address the cultural failure of the younger kids leaving the elderly at home when they go on vacation.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-09-09 07:43pm

Those community centers are indeed a good idea, things like that make me think I live in an almost undercivilized country. The only difference is that you guys are used to have heat waves, while in countries like France and England this stuff was actually unprecedented. They were caught with their pants down, no infrastructures or well studied emergency plans. Of course, that's no excuse, they should and could have acted fast and better. Their indifference and general behaviour was offensive.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-09 08:30pm

Holy shit, that is a lot of people.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-09-09 08:44pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:How long until the Democratic Underground suggets America is using a weather control device, as previously stated in the previous thread discussing the heat wave.

How long until the Freepers make fun of the dead French? Oh that's right, it already happened when this crap first started

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-09 11:13pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:How long until the Democratic Underground suggets America is using a weather control device, as previously stated in the previous thread discussing the heat wave.

I've already conclusively linked the recent northeast blackout to the power drain of the weather control ray, expect my book on the shelves next month.

As for 15,000 dead, its high but its not increasing at nearly the same rate it was when the magnitude of the crisis first became apparent.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-09 11:18pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:Those community centers are indeed a good idea, things like that make me think I live in an almost undercivilized country.

You don't have them? When our power started coming back on after the big blackout, the first thing the government did was bring the community centres and pools back up.

The only difference is that you guys are used to have heat waves, while in countries like France and England this stuff was actually unprecedented. They were caught with their pants down, no infrastructures or well studied emergency plans. Of course, that's no excuse, they should and could have acted fast and better. Their indifference and general behaviour was offensive.

True, although I'm still having trouble accepting that thousands of people died because they didn't know that they should stay in the shade and drink lots of water during a heatwave.

Tell me, do you have shopping centres with air conditioning? We don't even need community centres; if there's a heatwave, anyone feeling overwhelmed by the heat can just go to Wal-Mart and he'll be freezing his ass off in no time.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-09 11:20pm

Darth Wong wrote: True, although I'm still having trouble accepting that thousands of people died because they didn't know that they should stay in the shade and drink lots of water during a heatwave.

Problem is France has an awful drinking water system in its cities, people simply don't drink the water.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-09-09 11:46pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: True, although I'm still having trouble accepting that thousands of people died because they didn't know that they should stay in the shade and drink lots of water during a heatwave.
Problem is France has an awful drinking water system in its cities, people simply don't drink the water.

And that is the thing, and the whole of the thing. It's become a cultural thing, mainly because even before the Medieval Ages, sanitary water was nearly non-existant. Think of modern-day sewage treatments, and how hard they have to work just for a small city. Now, think of not having them, and all that shit going into the water.

So, people drank ale, or wine, or whatever was 'cleaner' than water. After a couple generations, what started as prevention of illness, becomes a tradition. A few more generations, it's 'just the way it's done'. And that is what killed all those poor people.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-09-09 11:53pm

I simply could not imagine this happening. After all, I am used to southern summers that go weeks on end without getting below 90 and it being so humid it can be hard to breathe if you aren't used to it.

But still...if it takes something as insignificant as a heat wave that is well within human tolerances to wreak this much havoc...I couldn't imagine what a hurricane hitting the coast, or a major earthquake happening would do.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-09 11:59pm

It just boggles the mind to have something like that take such a toll. Especially in a modern, first world nation. Basic precautions should have reduced the deaths.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-10 01:28am

I heard this on the radio today. My first thought was holy crap! I realize that France is a country that normally has a few hot days a year and this was unprecidented but goddam. 15,000 people!

I guess it goes to show that your environment has a bigger impact on you than you realize. 104 temperatures here would have people complaining, but deaths are rare. Since we have a few weeks every year when temps get that high people are prepared for it.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-09-10 04:42am

Darth Wong wrote: You don't have them? When our power started coming back on after the big blackout, the first thing the government did was bring the community centres and pools back up.

In Lisbon, we don't have houses always functioning with the purpose to entertain a large number of old people. There are communities for the old, but not directed for crisis. During the winter cold waves, they arrange some buildings to serve that function and also to take the homeless out of the streets.

Tell me, do you have shopping centres with air conditioning? We don't even need community centres; if there's a heatwave, anyone feeling overwhelmed by the heat can just go to Wal-Mart and he'll be freezing his ass off in no time.

Oh, yes, all of them do and we have plenty of them, same with the french. Again, it comes down to people not being used to do that, and old people not wanting to leave their homes at all.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-09-10 08:16am

Pah, our summers have weeks where the temp is around late twenties and early thirties, yet I don't recall anything like that happening here.

Just shows someone really did fuck up somewhere, yet France has what is arguably the best health service in the world.

Post by **Edi** » 2003-09-10 08:28am

Late 20s and early 30s is significantly different from late 30s and early 40s, which is what they were having in France during that heatwave. The former isn't too hard to deal with, but the latter is. When the temperature of your main cooling system (air) gets higher then your body temp for extended periods of time, bad things start happening, especially if such temps are unusual.

Edi