Iconian computer virus vs Borg Collective

Enola Straight · Post by **Enola Straight** » 2003-08-05 08:06pm

Would the Iconian virus which destroyed the Yamato do anything to the collective?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-08-05 08:35pm

Probably not. The Collective would cut the ship off before it could spread.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-08-05 08:56pm

I think the Borg virus check their email.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-08-05 09:05pm

Ahem. "I Borg" unsolvable computer problem considered a weapon?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-08-05 10:34pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Ahem. "I Borg" unsolvable computer problem considered a weapon?

Wasn't that suppoused to be a silent killer and suppoused to be undectable?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-08-05 10:52pm

PICARD: If we could get to the root command, we could introduce an invasive programming sequence through its biochip system, and then return it to the hive.
GEORDI: The Borg are so interconnected it would spread like a virus.
PICARD: Until it infected the entire Collective. We could disable their neural network in one stroke.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-08-05 10:59pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:PICARD: If we could get to the root command, we could introduce an invasive programming sequence through its biochip system, and then return it to the hive.
GEORDI: The Borg are so interconnected it would spread like a virus.
PICARD: Until it infected the entire Collective. We could disable their neural network in one stroke.

Then the Borg are screwed.

Agent R · Post by **Agent R** » 2003-08-05 11:01pm

Whether or not it kills the Collective might depend on transmission time of the program. The Collective might be able to save itself by detaching uninfected parts from the hive mind and then having them link together into a new collective. The Bor build their ships to be totally redundant, so why couldn't their society be like that?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-08-05 11:04pm

Agent R wrote:Whether or not it kills the Collective might depend on transmission time of the program. The Collective might be able to save itself by detaching uninfected parts from the hive mind and then having them link together into a new collective. The Bor build their ships to be totally redundant, so why couldn't their society be like that?

Because that defies Borg rule #1: if it is logical, don't do it.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-05 11:14pm

Agent R wrote:The Bor build their ships to be totally redundant, so why couldn't their society be like that?

Actually they don't; the disabling of a single system in BOBW resulted in the complete distruction of the cube.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-08-05 11:26pm

Howedar wrote:
Agent R wrote:The Bor build their ships to be totally redundant, so why couldn't their society be like that?
Actually they don't; the disabling of a single system in BOBW resulted in the complete distruction of the cube.

IIRC, the cube self-destructed when it realized it had been compromised.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-06 12:02am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:PICARD: If we could get to the root command, we could introduce an invasive programming sequence through its biochip system, and then return it to the hive.
GEORDI: The Borg are so interconnected it would spread like a virus.
PICARD: Until it infected the entire Collective. We could disable their neural network in one stroke.

However what they finally planned wasn't a program, it was simply a shape for them analyze until the whole collective crashed.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-06 12:08am

RedImperator wrote:
Howedar wrote:
Actually they don't; the disabling of a single system in BOBW resulted in the complete distruction of the cube.

IIRC, the cube self-destructed when it realized it had been compromised.[/quote]So they disabled their anti-compromise systems. Not much redundancy there eh?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-08-06 01:30am

Howedar wrote:
RedImperator wrote:
Howedar wrote:
Actually they don't; the disabling of a single system in BOBW resulted in the complete distruction of the cube.
IIRC, the cube self-destructed when it realized it had been compromised.

So they disabled their anti-compromise systems. Not much redundancy there eh?[/quote]

They did have protective systems around the weapons, power, et cetera. Picard clued Data into an exploit, Data ordered the drones to regenerate off schedule, and the ship detected that it had been hacked. It self destructed, presumably in order to protect the rest of the collective or prevent the ship from being further compromised.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-08-06 03:37am

RedImperator wrote:They did have protective systems around the weapons, power, et cetera. Picard clued Data into an exploit, Data ordered the drones to regenerate off schedule, and the ship detected that it had been hacked. It self destructed, presumably in order to protect the rest of the collective or prevent the ship from being further compromised.

When the hell did they say that? IIRC it was just some screwy feedback loop that somehow triggered the destruction of the ship.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-08-06 03:45am

Uraniun235 wrote:
RedImperator wrote:They did have protective systems around the weapons, power, et cetera. Picard clued Data into an exploit, Data ordered the drones to regenerate off schedule, and the ship detected that it had been hacked. It self destructed, presumably in order to protect the rest of the collective or prevent the ship from being further compromised.
When the hell did they say that? IIRC it was just some screwy feedback loop that somehow triggered the destruction of the ship.

I'd have to rewatch the episode. I remember the feedback loop, but I thought it was deliberate. <shrug> I could be wrong.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-08-07 11:35pm

I don't believe the Borg would be that threatened by the Iconian virus. Even if in the event the Borg Collective conciousness and processing power was unable to contain and/or eliminate the virus, only a single vessel would be lost. Multiple examples of hacked or "virus" like attacks against the Borg only cost one ship, as seen in STTNG "Best of Both Worlds", STVOY "Collective" and a few other eps I don't recall a this minute. So far the only exception has been in STVOY "Endgame", but that involved a time travel cop out with the Federation using Borg technology and knowledge from some 30+ years in the future. I'd like to hear arguements that any power wouldn't be threatened by a attack from future sources of knowledge and technology based upon the present day capabilities.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-07 11:41pm

Robert Walper wrote:So far the only exception has been in STVOY "Endgame", but that involved a time travel cop out with the Federation using Borg technology and knowledge from some 30+ years in the future.

Actually, the most likely explanation for that was the fact that the infection began at the Queen, who has unfettered access to the entire Collective. No single cube has that kind of access, hence the fact that infections are normally contained.

I'd like to hear arguements that any power wouldn't be threatened by a attack from future sources of knowledge and technology based upon the present day capabilities.

The Voth would be utterly unaffected by a Fed ship which is 30 years more advanced. In fact, most of the more advanced powers would be totally unaffected by a mere 30 year increase in Fed technology.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-08-08 12:17am

Darth Wong wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:So far the only exception has been in STVOY "Endgame", but that involved a time travel cop out with the Federation using Borg technology and knowledge from some 30+ years in the future.
Actually, the most likely explanation for that was the fact that the infection began at the Queen, who has unfettered access to the entire Collective. No single cube has that kind of access, hence the fact that infections are normally contained.

The Queen assimilated Old Janeway directly —and the sudden, torrential flood of 30+ years of accumuated illogic and stupidity was too much for the Borg system to handle.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-08-08 08:01am

This actually brings up an interesting point.

Would it be possible to use one of the many 'mind transfer' techniques we've seen on Star Trek (starting with the TOS finale) to move someone else into the Queens's body and sieze control of the collective?

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-08-08 10:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:So far the only exception has been in STVOY "Endgame", but that involved a time travel cop out with the Federation using Borg technology and knowledge from some 30+ years in the future.
Actually, the most likely explanation for that was the fact that the infection began at the Queen, who has unfettered access to the entire Collective. No single cube has that kind of access, hence the fact that infections are normally contained.

My impression is that the location of the virus substantially increased the damage it was capable of doing before the Unicomplex was cut off from the rest of the hive mind. This happens with whatever part of the collective is infected, the unicomplex is just a hell of a lot beigger than a typical Borb vessel. Note, the Borg cube and Borg Vinculum are virtually identical devices, with the Queen merely being a smaller, perhaps more vulnerable type of device. Both "bring order to chaoes". Every Borg vessel is equipped with a Vinculum, that's how control and processing of dron thoughts is handled. Yet one ship infected does not destroy the entire collective.

I'd like to hear arguements that any power wouldn't be threatened by a attack from future sources of knowledge and technology based upon the present day capabilities.
The Voth would be utterly unaffected by a Fed ship which is 30 years more advanced. In fact, most of the more advanced powers would be totally unaffected by a mere 30 year increase in Fed technology.

My fault for not being more clear. What I meant was any power that had an enemy from the future with access to their technology and capabilities and had 30+ years to study it and come up with ways to destroy, disable or disrupt it. The analogy would be the Federation having 30+ years to study modern/present Imperial technology, then go back in time some 30 years and use that knowledge against them when they aren't expecting it. I think even the Federation could hurt Imperials in some way with that kind of advantage. Especially if they have someone like Seven who has a great deal of knowledge about the Empire and a willingness to help along such a goal. In my opinion anyhow.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-09 12:53am

Robert Walper wrote:My impression is that the location of the virus substantially increased the damage it was capable of doing before the Unicomplex was cut off from the rest of the hive mind. This happens with whatever part of the collective is infected, the unicomplex is just a hell of a lot beigger than a typical Borb vessel. Note, the Borg cube and Borg Vinculum are virtually identical devices, with the Queen merely being a smaller, perhaps more vulnerable type of device. Both "bring order to chaoes". Every Borg vessel is equipped with a Vinculum, that's how control and processing of dron thoughts is handled.

So? Every computer on a LAN can have its own administrator account and password, but that doesn't stop the domain administrator from mangling them all at once if he wants to.

Yet one ship infected does not destroy the entire collective.

See above; the Queen is obviously of higher rank than the controller of any given Borg cube.

My fault for not being more clear. What I meant was any power that had an enemy from the future with access to their technology and capabilities and had 30+ years to study it and come up with ways to destroy, disable or disrupt it.

Only if it is within their capabilities to do so.

The analogy would be the Federation having 30+ years to study modern/present Imperial technology, then go back in time some 30 years and use that knowledge against them when they aren't expecting it. I think even the Federation could hurt Imperials in some way with that kind of advantage.

They might be able to come up with some really neat tricks and tactics, but such a thing would probably not work more than once. Unless their adaptation is to make their weapons a thousand times more powerful or their FTL propulsion a thousand times faster, it cannot nullify the overall disadvantage.

Especially if they have someone like Seven who has a great deal of knowledge about the Empire and a willingness to help along such a goal. In my opinion anyhow.

Seven couldn't even help them make a transwarp drive work, and that's very close to their existing technology.