[STGOD] Primary OOC Discussion Thread

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:18pm

OKay, so lets boil down the essence of this argument:

Thirdfain you launched a spy operation to assasinate certain assets in a "secondary shipyard" of the Asguard

Stormbringer you're saying that it had to be at Kharam your major shipyard because you have no secondary ones

Is that the focal point of the argument?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-18 09:22pm

Not quite- Kharam isn't even his shipyard- he is operating it, for the ITA, with a fleet of Floater warships watching him.

It is ITA territory.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2003-06-18 09:24pm

Thirdfain wrote:Not quite- Kharam isn't even his shipyard- he is operating it, for the ITA, with a fleet of Floater warships watching him.

It is ITA territory.

Can you still use Kharam to build ships for your navy??? Because, if not, i have presented an alternative.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:24pm

So I don't understand why it HAD to be Kharam.

Forgive me but you guys have to bring me up to speed on certian things during this argument because I just joined in.

If Kharam is in ITA terriroty it doesn't make much sense for them to launch a black op there

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-18 09:25pm

Especially considering I have about 8 Dreadnoughts packed with the best zero-G marines in Known Space sitting right next to it...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-18 09:25pm

Stravo wrote:OKay, so lets boil down the essence of this argument:

Thirdfain you launched a spy operation to assasinate certain assets in a "secondary shipyard" of the Asguard

Stormbringer you're saying that it had to be at Kharam your major shipyard because you have no secondary ones

Is that the focal point of the argument?

Actually, I'm saying it had to be at Kharam (one of his abandoned yards that I put my people on) because I have no secondary yards that would have the personell he described.

Plus all he said was "secondary shipyard" and that's the only thing that would fit.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-18 09:28pm

Stravo wrote:So I don't understand why it HAD to be Kharam.

Forgive me but you guys have to bring me up to speed on certian things during this argument because I just joined in.

If Kharam is in ITA terriroty it doesn't make much sense for them to launch a black op there

Kharam is in my hands now. I was using it for ITA business but it was firmly under my control.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-18 09:28pm

Plus all he said was "secondary shipyard" and that's the only thing that would fit.

It's not even a tertiary shipyard, Stormbringer, because you DON't OWN IT.

It's ITA territory.

"Secondary Shipyard" means one of your smaller military shipyards, or an annex of a larger one- a shipyard devoted to escorts or otehr small craft. A minor target for an agent who may be one of mine.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:30pm

Thirdfain wrote:
Plus all he said was "secondary shipyard" and that's the only thing that would fit.
It's not even a tertiary shipyard, Stormbringer, because you DON't OWN IT.

It's ITA territory.

"Secondary Shipyard" means one of your smaller military shipyards, or an annex of a larger one- a shipyard devoted to escorts or otehr small craft. A minor target for an agent who may be one of mine.

Well there might be the issue, we misinterpretted what you meant by Secondary shipyard because as I see it teh Asguard have a centralized system, am I right Stormbringer?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-18 09:31pm

Thirdfain wrote:
Plus all he said was "secondary shipyard" and that's the only thing that would fit.
It's not even a tertiary shipyard, Stormbringer, because you DON't OWN IT.

It's ITA territory.

Oh?

I might not own it in your eyes but I was in charge and in control of it. I WAS using it for ITASF business like I told you guys. But it was under my control (especially given I am the ITASF Minister of Fleet Assests as well).

Thirdfain wrote:"Secondary Shipyard" means one of your smaller military shipyards, or an annex of a larger one- a shipyard devoted to escorts or otehr small craft. A minor target for an agent who may be one of mine.

Dude, are you missing something? I have centralized yards. There are no secondary yards!

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-18 09:32pm

Kharam is in my hands now. I was using it for ITA business but it was firmly under my control.

If by "Firmly Under Your Control" you mean, "I was building stuff with it, under the watchful eye of the half the Floater wall of battle"

then yes, I suppose you are right.

It is apparent that the North American Union is not upholding their deal with us to provide mutual defense in the Alpha Centauri system, therefore, we are deploying a task force of some of our few modern vessels to oversee the Womb until such a time as either we, or another power we trust, is able to put the Womb to a proper use.

Three "Republic" Class Dreadnoughts, three Attack Carriers, and twelve "Shadowrun" class strike cruisers are being deployed to the facility, via the Kharam jumpgate.

Here is the quote were I deploy a fleet to the Womb, which is the name of the shipyard at Kharam. Page 85 of the main thread. I never redeployed this fleet.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-18 09:33pm

Stravo wrote:Well there might be the issue, we misinterpretted what you meant by Secondary shipyard because as I see it teh Asguard have a centralized system, am I right Stormbringer?

Yes, a system of large centralized yards. You can go over my posts and I have nothing but they are large centralized yards. All my posts bear that out.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:33pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:"Secondary Shipyard" means one of your smaller military shipyards, or an annex of a larger one- a shipyard devoted to escorts or otehr small craft. A minor target for an agent who may be one of mine.
Dude, are you missing something? I have centralized yards. There are no secondary yards!

Stormbringer do you have at least shipyards broken out for heavy capital ships and lighter escort ships?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-18 09:35pm

If by "Firmly Under Your Control" you mean, "I was building stuff with it, under the watchful eye of the half the Floater wall of battle"

then yes, I suppose you are right.

That would be an adequate description ofthe situation as it were. There's no doubt though that I was administering and garrisoning the Womb at Kharam.

Here is the quote were I deploy a fleet to the Womb, which is the name of the shipyard at Kharam. Page 85 of the main thread. I never redeployed this fleet.

Did I ever say you didn't?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-18 09:35pm

Dude, are you missing something? I have centralized yards. There are no secondary yards!

In a single shipyard facility, there are dozens of yards, huge building slips, smaller slips for escorts. Is it that hard to believe that two or three agents infiltrated into the facilities surrounding one of the smaller slips, and were able to commit the assassinations of a few minor officials and engineers?

that makes a lot mroe sense then killing some men on ITA business on a shipyard I have half my wall of battle pointed at

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:38pm

Thirdfain wrote:
Dude, are you missing something? I have centralized yards. There are no secondary yards!
In a single shipyard facility, there are dozens of yards, huge building slips, smaller slips for escorts. Is it that hard to believe that two or three agents infiltrated into the facilities surrounding one of the smaller slips, and were able to commit the assassinations of a few minor officials and engineers?

that makes a lot mroe sense then killing some men on ITA business on a shipyard I have half my wall of battle pointed at

Thats what I'm trying to get at, if the centralized shipyards have seperate facilties for the smaller craft, therefore lighter securoty relatively unimportant.

Although to be honest, Thirdfain, you neded to be alot clearer about the objectives in black ops like that to avoid an understandable squabble.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-18 09:38pm

Thirdfain wrote:
Dude, are you missing something? I have centralized yards. There are no secondary yards!
In a single shipyard facility, there are dozens of yards, huge building slips, smaller slips for escorts. Is it that hard to believe that two or three agents infiltrated into the facilities surrounding one of the smaller slips, and were able to commit the assassinations of a few minor officials and engineers?

Yes, but they are one facility. A unified whole not scattered bits and peices.

And you might have forgotten we were recently at war. Given you have to gene-mod your agents I would naturally screen for it on all my military yards.

Thirdfain wrote:that makes a lot mroe sense then killing some men on ITA business on a shipyard I have half my wall of battle pointed at

Hey, the whole thing makes no sense when you consider it. You tip your hand to kill five minor officials. It's petty revenge at best.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:42pm

COnsidering Storm's asseriton that we're looking at a singular facility, I think that this operation may have to be rethought. I understand what Thirdfain was going for and would be acceptable to me but the fact is that UNLESS it took place at Kharam it could not have taken place at an Asguard shipyard

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-18 09:42pm

Although to be honest, Thirdfain, you neded to be alot clearer about the objectives in black ops like that to avoid an understandable squabble.

Stormbringer never posted a list of his shipyard facilities, Stravo. It was the best I could do.

Hey, the whole thing makes no sense when you consider it. You tip your hand to kill five minor officials. It's petty revenge at best.

Maybe it was rogue agents- when the majority of my people left, they left some of my intelligence apparat behind. Probably one of the men in the old Office of Diplomacy and War: Special Tasks division, still on deep cover, discovering he was marooned.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:44pm

Thats another point. We shouldn't assume things about people's facilties if they have not been posted to avoid this. While a secondary shipyard sounds reasonable to me I would not launch a black op against soemthing that I wasn't sure existed and can we patch this up for ST2 and list all major facilites?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-18 09:44pm

COnsidering Storm's asseriton that we're looking at a singular facility, I think that this operation may have to be rethought. I understand what Thirdfain was going for and would be acceptable to me but the fact is that UNLESS it took place at Kharam it could not have taken place at an Asguard shipyard

Stormbringer has never said he didn't have additional facilities, he has merely only made reference to one.

Besides, I was allied with Stormbringer for a little while, giving me plenty of time to arrange for some infiltrations, combined with the intelligence opportunities afforded various organizations when Stormbringer absorbed the Kokand Empire ( he himself said it was hard to keep security tight in those times,) even getting a man into the primary shipyard wouldn't be that hard.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:46pm

Thirdfain wrote:
COnsidering Storm's asseriton that we're looking at a singular facility, I think that this operation may have to be rethought. I understand what Thirdfain was going for and would be acceptable to me but the fact is that UNLESS it took place at Kharam it could not have taken place at an Asguard shipyard
Stormbringer has never said he didn't have additional facilities, he has merely only made reference to one.

Besides, I was allied with Stormbringer for a little while, giving me plenty of time to arrange for some infiltrations, combined with the intelligence opportunities afforded various organizations when Stormbringer absorbed the Kokand Empire ( he himself said it was hard to keep security tight in those times,) even getting a man into the primary shipyard wouldn't be that hard.

OK so are we now asserting that it DID take place at a major Asgaurd shipyard?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-18 09:48pm

Thirdfain wrote:Stormbringer has never said he didn't have additional facilities, he has merely only made reference to one.

Which is kind of the point. There are no secondary yards. Just the big central yards. I've referenced at least three major yards.

Thirdfain wrote:Besides, I was allied with Stormbringer for a little while, giving me plenty of time to arrange for some infiltrations, combined with the intelligence opportunities afforded various organizations when Stormbringer absorbed the Kokand Empire ( he himself said it was hard to keep security tight in those times,) even getting a man into the primary shipyard wouldn't be that hard.

Yes, and a plenty long Cold War afterwards in which to purge said infaltrators.

And the Kokand Annexation was a long (STGOD) time ago.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-18 09:55pm

Which is kind of the point. There are no secondary yards. Just the big central yards. I've referenced at least three major yards.

For god's sake, secondary could mean the yards not in orbit around your home world, the yards which recieve less business then the otehr- it doesn't matter, this was a small intelligence operation OBVIOUSLY not intended to take place at the Womb- which I wuld have called the Womb, had it been taking place there.

After all, I did name it myself...

Yes, and a plenty long Cold War afterwards in which to purge said infaltrators.

And the Kokand Annexation was a long (STGOD) time ago.

Maybe you get lucky in the purges, maybe not. Floater infiltrators look just like the people they are duplicating, down to the DNA. If they can get in, they are unlikely to be detected unless they either make contact with their handlers, or commit their mission- much like RL deep cover agents.

OK so are we now asserting that it DID take place at a major Asgaurd shipyard?

At an annex to one, sure. That explanation makes a hell of a lot more sense then the Womb.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 09:58pm

Stormbringer are you willing to accept that the Floaters got lucky, killed a handful of people in one of your shipyards devoted to lighter warship construction?