[STGOD] Primary OOC Discussion Thread

[Stormbringer]

If it were a proper military force it would take years of training supplying, and equipping, and that would just bring it up to the galactic standard. Quite frankly with the time he started it he has no time to bring it up very high at all, and if that's the case it is mere rabel, or only as well trained as the people in the bay of pigs invasion.

Actually, you're assuming this was something just off the cuff. It sure wasn't. Look at how far back the posts go and that's just saying the force is ready. It is entirely possible for them to be trained to standard.

Then we get to you ignoring the precedent of many nations which could, and did take 3 to 1 odds and win, for example the greeks against the Persians, Britain against the Falklands, and, hypothetically, America against almost any other country out there in modern times.

And you are ignoring the massive numerical or qualitive edges the winners held. None of those beat a force that had something close to parity with and won with out horrendous casualties.

[Straha]

If it were a proper military force it would take years of training supplying, and equipping, and that would just bring it up to the galactic standard. Quite frankly with the time he started it he has no time to bring it up very high at all, and if that's the case it is mere rabel, or only as well trained as the people in the bay of pigs invasion.

Actually, you're assuming this was something just off the cuff. It sure wasn't. Look at how far back the posts go and that's just saying the force is ready. It is entirely possible for them to be trained to standard.

Posts? There was ONE post, no more no less. It mentioned them training the forces, that's it. No we're going to put the Emperor back in Edo, no the submarines were ready for launch, nothing. Just a The emperor would return, Banzai.

Then we get to you ignoring the precedent of many nations which could, and did take 3 to 1 odds and win, for example the greeks against the Persians, Britain against the Falklands, and, hypothetically, America against almost any other country out there in modern times.

And you are ignoring the massive numerical or qualitive edges the winners held. None of those beat a force that had something close to parity with and won with out horrendous casualties.

A. I do have technological superiority on the ground, from day 1 my second post to now I have always had ground superiority up the wazoo, get over it.
Now let's take each affair individually.

The Greeks were often out numbered, and had equal tech to the Persians, did they win alot, yes, in fact enough to defeat the biggest army the world had yet seen, twice. Then the Falklands, let's take the goose green affair where the British were able to take greater then 3 to 1 odds, and still kick Argentinan butt up down left and right. And finally I think you can tell about America.

You lost, get over it.

[Stormbringer]

Posts? There was ONE post, no more no less. It mentioned them training the forces, that's it. No we're going to put the Emperor back in Edo, no the submarines were ready for launch, nothing. Just a The emperor would return, Banzai.

Yeah? That alone should have told you something. He isn't required to tell you everything after all.

A. I do have technological superiority on the ground, from day 1 my second post to now I have always had ground superiority up the wazoo, get over it.

No one is arguing that. People just highly disagree with "my troops arrive. The rebels die. I win!" You took no casulaties against a powerful force

You lost, get over it.

I never fought. And I agree with the loss. I just hate your uber-wank army.

[Thirdfain]

No, I think he is getting the curb stomping he deserves for posting such a lamebrained idea in the first place. His entire plan is an intelligence impossibility.

I might as well just post:
"Bondman Harper walked confidently down the London street. His disguise was perfect, and his papers of the highest quality. He had been living in London for years, now- he had dated a few local women, held a few jobs, and was seen as part of the community. No one guessed his real name, or his real motivations. His work, along with the work of his co-agents, was progressing spectacularly. Soon, they would be able to complete their mission."

And then post, a few weeks later,

"The sun rose over the city of London, to find every major official of the Asgard government dead- assassinated by Floater agents who had infilitrated the government over the last few years. A bomb went off in the local assembly chamber, killing hundreds. Frantic communications between the suddenly horrifically disorganized governments revealed that the same had occured on the Agard capital as well.

the Asgard government was effectively decapitated."

And then, I could say "Well, well! I gave you indication this would happen! you were just too foolish to see it coming!"
I would be in the wrong, as Beowulf is now.

[Thirdfain]

Oh, and BTW, Straha, helicopter gunships which are resistant to antiair missiles are kind of unbelieveable.

[Sea Skimmer]

Then the Falklands, let's take the goose green affair where the British were able to take greater then 3 to 1 odds, and still kick Argentinan butt up down left and right. And finally I think you can tell about America.

Think the air strikes, naval and land bombardment and the fact that the defenders where conscripts for a dictator with 45 days training had anything to do with it? Perhapes the fact that they had almost no heavy equipment did it?

[Stravo]

Straha,

I don't think people here are arguing that you shouldn't have won, they're arguing that it should not have been the cakewalk that you made it out to be. One thing is a decided advantage and another is overwhelming supererioty. An advantage means that all things being even you will win a distinct majority of the time. Overwhelming superority means you will rarely if ever lose.

STGOD at least as far as I can see is about balances and no one power is so ahead of the others as to be overwhelmingly superior.

You should have won this, but it should have been one helluva fight with some serious casualties taken.

The greeks beat the persians in one instance because of terrain and no one in this STGOD should be as overwhelmingly powerful against other ST nations as the US vs. the rest of the world.

[Stormbringer]

I'm not disagreeing with him losing. I'm just saying it shouldn't have been a cakewalk like he made it.

After all, he knew an ivasion was coming (or should have). That Beowulf didn't tell him how powerful is perfectly fair.

[Straha]

Posts? There was ONE post, no more no less. It mentioned them training the forces, that's it. No we're going to put the Emperor back in Edo, no the submarines were ready for launch, nothing. Just a The emperor would return, Banzai.

Yeah? That alone should have told you something. He isn't required to tell you everything after all.

So let's see, the fact that it could have gone to four other nations, as well as mine where the Emperor is taught about only in history classes should of made me take my troops to red alert like with Tom Ridge? And then that ignores the facts that it would takes hundreds of men just to COOK for the damn invasion, not to mention re-supply it, pay the bills, etc. and not one of them talked about this to a couple of friends.

A. I do have technological superiority on the ground, from day 1 my second post to now I have always had ground superiority up the wazoo, get over it.

No one is arguing that. People just highly disagree with "my troops arrive. The rebels die. I win!" You took no casulaties against a powerful force

I posted multiple things about a battle, and I will aknowledge that I took losses like a force in any combat situation. I will not, however, aknowledge signifigant losses against a force that never should of existed in the first place.

You lost, get over it.

I never fought. And I agree with the loss. I just hate your uber-wank army.[/quote]

Hate all you want, as I said it's been around from the begining, if you have a gripe you should of gotten rid of it then.

[Straha]

Then the Falklands, let's take the goose green affair where the British were able to take greater then 3 to 1 odds, and still kick Argentinan butt up down left and right. And finally I think you can tell about America.

Think the air strikes, naval and land bombardment and the fact that the defenders where conscripts for a dictator with 45 days training had anything to do with it? Perhapes the fact that they had almost no heavy equipment did it?

Do you even know what the goose green affair was? 425 british paratroopers, dropped and then marched through a forest, and attacked the better part of the Argentinen army when they were fortified with heavy guns and artillery, and yet the brits still won, suprising isn't it?

[Straha]

Oh, and BTW, Straha, helicopter gunships which are resistant to antiair missiles are kind of unbelieveable.

Fine, I'll get make them weaker, and next time two shots will bring them down, at the time I was responding to his "My men, who have just been bombed and killed, launch missles which blow your starfighters out of the sky" thing.

[Thirdfain]

Stravo, I think you need to seriously consider the practicality of Beowulf's move in the first place. his actions:

The training and equipping of a large army, complete with armored vehicles and a submarine force

the procurement and deployment of multiple high-yield WMDs into the PSR's territory.

The deploying of multiple bombs into heavily guarded military bases, and the bombing of a major, extremely heavily defended palace

the deployment of said large army, in total secrecy, onto an island nation guarded by a large naval fleet, equipped with advanced sensors and orbital spy sattalites.


----------

Quite frankly, Beowulf's entire premise is horrifically flawed.

[Stormbringer]

So let's see, the fact that it could have gone to four other nations, as well as mine where the Emperor is taught about only in history classes should of made me take my troops to red alert like with Tom Ridge? And then that ignores the facts that it would takes hundreds of men just to COOK for the damn invasion, not to mention re-supply it, pay the bills, etc. and not one of them talked about this to a couple of friends.

The Banzai should have been damn sure give away unless you're total ignorant of Japanese military tradition.

And had you actually deigned to react before the invasion you or your

I posted multiple things about a battle, and I will aknowledge that I took losses like a force in any combat situation. I will not, however, aknowledge signifigant losses against a force that never should of existed in the first place.

In other news, Straha breaks his hand wacking off.

You took next to no casualties and broke out pure techno wank. You should have taken more casualties than that.

ate all you want, as I said it's been around from the begining, if you have a gripe you should of gotten rid of it then.

All you said was you had very good army. I was prepared to grant that and still am. You just assumed that meant you could curb stomp anyone with ease.

[Thirdfain]

For fucks sake, dude! seriously, you are freaking out over Straha's slight exaggeration, and you are ignoring Beowulf getting away with murder!

[Darksider]

For fucks sake, dude! seriously, you are freaking out over Straha's slight exaggeration, and you are ignoring Beowulf getting away with murder!

that's right.....

wait, huh?????

[Stormbringer]

Quite frankly, Beowulf's entire premise is horrifically flawed.

Perhaps a little. But you guys also did not react at all to his post so it's fair to assume complacency on the part of your nations.

[Sea Skimmer]

Do you even know what the goose green affair was? 425 british paratroopers, dropped and then marched through a forest, and attacked the better part of the Argentinen army when they were fortified with heavy guns and artillery, and yet the brits still won, suprising isn't it?

Clearly you don't know jack about it.


There are no forests on the Falklands and there where no paradrops in the campaign. The British walked from san carlos water. The defenders "heavy artillery" was limited to three 35mm AA guns which where knocked out by Harriers. The Argentinain forces holding the airstrip had no training, almost no ammo and where under fire from HMS Arrow and a few other warships, aginst which they could not reply. There moral was zero after months of poor living conditions and many where happy to surrender.

[Straha]

Straha,

I don't think people here are arguing that you shouldn't have won, they're arguing that it should not have been the cakewalk that you made it out to be. One thing is a decided advantage and another is overwhelming supererioty. An advantage means that all things being even you will win a distinct majority of the time. Overwhelming superority means you will rarely if ever lose.

STGOD at least as far as I can see is about balances and no one power is so ahead of the others as to be overwhelmingly superior.

You should have won this, but it should have been one helluva fight with some serious casualties taken.

The greeks beat the persians in one instance because of terrain and no one in this STGOD should be as overwhelmingly powerful against other ST nations as the US vs. the rest of the world.

I did have Overwhelming superiority, he threw what would have been barely trained, barely disciplined, and only fanatical troops against a far superior force in what is one of the hardest operations to pull off, the Allies in WWII only pulled it off by a hair for goodness sake, and he doens't expect to lose badly? Also I would kindly point out that I have had the ground advantage like this since the begining, in exchange I gave myself a Astral Navy which under-funded antiquated Pirates with a force a quarter of mine could beat, I see that as a fair exchange.

[Stormbringer]

For fucks sake, dude! seriously, you are freaking out over Straha's slight exaggeration, and you are ignoring Beowulf getting away with murder!

No, I just think it's fair of him to assume the same sort of complacency that you showed would be reflected in your nations.

[Thirdfain]

Beowulf is claiming an effectively PERFECT counterintelligence service, one which blinds the PSR to people setting up large arrays of WMDs in their territory, which allows the training, equipping, and deployment of a large military force onto a heavily defended island, without even being noticed until they are on shore!

Follow that with the neigh impossible move of magically placing EMP bombs and a M/AM device on heavily defended military bases, and Beowulf is throwing practicallity to the wind.

[Stormbringer]

Beowulf is claiming an effectively PERFECT counterintelligence service, one which blinds the PSR to people setting up large arrays of WMDs in their territory, which allows the training, equipping, and deployment of a large military force onto a heavily defended island, without even being noticed until they are on shore!

Follow that with the neigh impossible move of magically placing EMP bombs and a M/AM device on heavily defended military bases, and Beowulf is throwing practicallity to the wind.

I agree, that's crap. But it's simply counter-crap to Straha's.

[Thirdfain]

No, I just think it's fair of him to assume the same sort of complacency that you showed would be reflected in your nations.

I don't see why it would be necessary to make a post specifically saying that my agents are watching the OU. I don't think it is necessary to make a post specifically saying that the soldiers guarding the Monacoran military bases patrol regularly and adopt security measures.

No special posts were needed, because for fucks sake, I sure as hell didn't imagine that Beowulf would throw reality to the wind and pull a stunt like this out of his ahole.

[Straha]

Do you even know what the goose green affair was? 425 british paratroopers, dropped and then marched through a forest, and attacked the better part of the Argentinen army when they were fortified with heavy guns and artillery, and yet the brits still won, suprising isn't it?

Clearly you do not know what happened in that battle.

There are no forests on the Falklands and there where no paradrops in the campaign. The British walked from san carlos water. The defenders "heavy artillery" was limited to three 35mm AA guns which where knocked out by Harriers. The Argentinain forces holding the airstrip had no training, almost no ammo and where under fire from HMS Arrow and a few other warships, aginst which they could not reply.

I will admit I was wrong about the forests, but I will point out that, and I quote from a accounting of it, which says that A. The argentinans had Heavy Artillery and used it, B.The Brits were unable to get anything heavier then 3 light artillery guns there, and C. they were out numbered 3 to 1. Now let's compare that here. A. I had well trained men in the area to his poorly trained men, B. He just pulled off a naval invasion out of Submarines, meaning that he had to send these men from some distence off, out ruling the use of heavy tanks, artillery, and most air craft, while I had bases in the area, and good quantities of all three. and C. He does out-number me, I'll give him that, but when you outnumber someone you don't get an auto-win.

[Thirdfain]

I agree, that's crap. But it's simply counter-crap to Straha's.

Zuh? Beowulf posted BEFORE Straha- it was Straha who was countercrapping, not the Wulf.

[Stormbringer]

I agree, that's crap. But it's simply counter-crap to Straha's.

Zuh? Beowulf posted BEFORE Straha- it was Straha who was countercrapping, not the Wulf.

no, it was Straha who started it. Seven and a half hour army anyone? And then he proceeded to slaughter a powerful but defeatable army with no appreciable casualties. He just flat out claimed his army was that good. Nothing more than that.

That's just pure and obnoxious powergaming. Nothing clever, no tactical trick. Just a slaughter 'cuz he said so.