Zwinmar wrote: ↑2024-03-07 07:18am
If you don't know the why something happens then how the fuck you think you are going to actually fix it? The intellectual dishonesty on most when they discuss this topic is astounding, people who are extremely smart and professional otherwise turn into drooling morons. While taking away/regulating firearms my address a symptom it does not address the cause so, lets go down the rabbit hole a bit.
Back in the early 1900's people got their panties in a twist because they perceived the wrong people as drinking too much alcohol so, they campaigned for and eventually led to prohibition.
Prohibition opened a real can of worms as it is directly responsible for the rise of bootleggers and the mob. To combat the mob and gangland killings they passed the first national gun control and Philadelphia called on Smedley Butler to reform their police department.
Butler used the tactics he had learned during the Banana wars chasing what they called 'bandits' and thus by labeling citizen bandits rather than citizens the police perceive them as being subhuman resulting in the modern police state as other departments started copying what he started.
Incidentally, those banana wars where the governments where forcible changed for US corporate interests is reason we have so many migrants today, and why the US has a long history of treating them so bad that even Hitler copied them for his 'Jewish problem'
Tribble is right here, firearms are ubiquitous in the US, even if they outlaw them all tomorrow there are way to many to change anything. Additionally, until 1934 people owned whatever they wanted from the smallest of parlor guns to warships, though some towns did limit who could carry what where ( I say some become I do not have data on that ).
1. Critiquing the AAP for focusing on healthcare is dumb
2. The databases they draw from? Is freely open for you to peruse. You can literally GO in and see the article on each individual shooting. You may not be able to see who did what, primarily because the police didn't find the suspects or established cause for each shooting.
3. The study focus is on school shootings and the potential impact on children. Not a overall analysis of the gun problem in America, hence you complaining about this is literally a red herring.
But let's DO go down this route.
https://www.chds.us/sssc/methods/
For example, government reports on school shootings by the US Secret Service, FBI, and Department of Education provide an explanation of factors contributing to shootings, but do not catalogue a comprehensive list of the incidents. Lists of shootings reported by the media identify a large number of incidents, but provide few details beyond the date and location. Databases of school shootings on blogs and crowd-sourced websites have extensive lists of school shootings, but lack citations to any primary source. Without a common methodology for data collection, individual data sources are limited in both validity and utility. There still is not a consensus for what actually defines a school shooting to serve as the inclusion/exclusion criteria across the different datasets.
To answer the question “How many school shootings have occurred” and address the void of centralized and available data, the K-12 School Shooting Database (K-12 SSDB) has been created as a research product of the Center for Homeland Defense and Security. The product is a filtered, deconflicted, and cross-referenced database of more than 1,550 K-12 school shootings from 1970 to present. This database was collated from the previously referenced sources as well as new and continued research by the authors.
The K-12 SSDB includes detailed information about each incident, a reliability score that quantifies the dependability of the information, and the verified primary source citation(s) (e.g., newspaper article, court records, interviews, police reports) to allow for further academic research. The scope is widely inclusive by documenting each and every instance in which a gun is brandished, fired, or a bullet hits school property for any reason, regardless of the number of victims (including zero), time, day of the week, or reason (e.g., planned attack, accidental, domestic violence, gang-related). The breadth of this dataset allows for a comprehensive view of the issue while providing users with the ability to filter between specific subsets within the data (e.g., number of victims, pre-planning, and type of weapon used). Through the inclusion, rather than exclusion, of criteria that are cross-referenced, unfiltered, and agnostic, users could conduct more detailed analyses of specific incidents within their area(s) of interest from which to make better informed decisions and generate more accurate reports.
.....
Guard shoots a student who is threatening other students?
Are domestic violence incidents that end with one parent shooting the other while on school property considered a school shooting? What if their student child is injured in the event?
Do shootings that occur late at night in the school parking lot by either students or non-students meet the school shooting definition?
What if a student is accidentally shot on the football field by a hunter who was target practicing a mile away? What if the same student was shot, but the shooter and reason for the shooting remained unknown?
Do there need to be victims in order for it to be classified as a school shooting? What if a fellow student holds a classroom of thirty students hostage with a shotgun, then fires a round into the ceiling before surrendering to the police?
Although the vignettes above may appear hypothetical, they each represent an actual incident. They also demonstrate that no two school shootings are alike and therefore the circumstances surrounding each must be assessed and considered. Choosing to include or exclude any of these criteria comes with a level of risk by directly affecting the statistical narrative on school shootings. For example, through exclusion, fewer incidents will be reported resulting in a potential failure to elicit both attention and resources toward a systemic problem. Partial or complete inclusion, on the other hand, will increase the number of reported incidents, but likely cause an overreaction among political, security, and societal stakeholders.
Regardless of how the incident is defined, the initial impact to a reported shooting that occurs at a school is generally the same. There is widespread fear and panic at the school. The campus needs to be locked down. Police, fire, and EMS respond. Law enforcement personnel systematically search and clear building(s). Children are escorted to safety. The media begins continuous coverage. Frantic parents scramble to find their children. Public officials need to make statements and assure everyone’s safety. After action reports are written. Policies are put in place to prevent a similar future incident. This type of response occurred following both the February 2018 indiscriminate shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, in which thirty-four people were either killed or wounded and the August 2018 non-student gunfire during a fight at Palm Beach Central High School, in which there were no deaths and only two injuries.
To allow anything other than location to qualify an incident as a school shooting is both arbitrary and subjective. All school shootings represent social, cultural, and interpersonal issues. As such, they should not be categorized based on who fired the gun or why it happened, but rather where it occurred. Because of the nebulous criteria and generally qualitative nature of the term “school shooting,” a broadly inclusive definition is needed to cast the widest net possible, which gives the end user the power to filter for specific criteria. The definition used for the K-12 SSDB is: a gun is brandished, is fired, or a bullet hits school property for any reason, regardless of the number of victims (including zero), time, day of the week, or reason.
Here we have the reason WHY the database defines school shootings as any brandishing, bullet fired n etc . It allows researchers to then zoom in to research .
What does all this and other data helps us with?
Well. We know that most shootings in schools itself come from children who bring weapons to schools.
What kind of students bring guns?
https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054 ... 2/abstract
So... Not children who are bullied or frightened, but rather delinquents that think packing heat is normal.
For mass shootings, we know that no reliable profile of a shooter is available. No reliable assessment or screening exists.
So.... Based on all available data, what can we do to reduce school shootings ?
Zero tolerance? Doesnt work. It turns out that trying to be tougher doesn't actually reduce school shootings, especially since the problem is delinquency rather than just packing heat . Hardening schools against attacks "may help", but no real impact on reducing school shootings or mass shootings.
Profiling? Less than useless.
So. ULTIMATELY, what all this tells us is that you cannot separate the "bad people who are likely to shoot others" from the good. Indeed, data from
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... e_Evidence
We know that lethal violence happens more often in US, although crime is actually similar to other countries. This IS the result of guns being more prevalent in the US. Period.
School homicides did not differ between rural Vs urban, public Vs private.
Now, this article is obsolete, since gun homicide has become the leading cause of death for children in 2020.
https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/hi ... trol-laws/
Finally. There higher rates of mass shootings for states with more relaxed gun control laws.
To put it simply, the HARM is due to how prevalent guns are in the US. Pointing to prohibition as a failed policy ignores the difference.
1.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180968013/
The Wild West. Lawless. Transient. Violence.
Towns with gun control had less violence and homicide than those without.
2. Fun fact about 1934. Do you know why mobsters were able to kill so many people? Guns. And what did gun control laws do?
https://www.npr.org/2016/06/30/48421589 ... st-gun-law
What happened then? The disappearance of the submachine gun from not just violent crime, but from mass shootings PERIOD in US history.
So. Let think again.
Pre gun control, Valentine Massacre.
Post gun control, disappeared as tool of violence.
Hmmm....
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner