Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

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jerry66
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Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

Have you ever heard about green rocket fuel that is made from plastic waste? Scientists from one space company figured out how to remake plastic waste into rocket fuel that has already been successfully tested
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Solauren
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by Solauren »

I found this within 4 seconds using google.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanoc ... 1138675540
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

I am stageered that the test of this rocket fuel has shown that new type of rocket fuel ( remade of plastic )is 1% - 3% better than kerosene by its energy characteristics. I wonder if it`s possible to use such kind of fuel in long space journeys?
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by Adam Reynolds »

The problem here is likely the same with as with all other plastic recycling, that it just isn't cost effective right now. While I don't know how much this costs, I am highly doubtful it will be as cheap as just buying kerosene on the open market.

If we do see a carbon tax go into effect, this might start to become worth it, but there is no indication that this is happening any time soon.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

Adam Reynolds wrote: 2021-04-09 06:53am The problem here is likely the same with as with all other plastic recycling, that it just isn't cost effective right now. While I don't know how much this costs, I am highly doubtful it will be as cheap as just buying kerosene on the open market.

If we do see a carbon tax go into effect, this might start to become worth it, but there is no indication that this is happening any time soon.
The test of this kind of petrol has shown pretty successfull results. The new type of rocket fuel ( made of plastic )is 1% - 3% better than kerosene by its energy characteristics. But I am not sure if this fuel good enough for long space journeys.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by LaCroix »

TBH - in space travel terms, cost efficiency is not always the bar, and fuel cost is one of the least problematic things when trying to shift payload into orbit. I do remember that it costs 60 million total to launch the Falcon 9, but only 2-300k to fuel it.

1-3% more power is something that helps shifting the rocket equation to your favor in some edge cases. At a couple thousand Dollars per kg payload, even double the fuel cost is easily recoverable by a few percent more bang per liter.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

LaCroix wrote: 2021-04-13 03:56am TBH - in space travel terms, cost efficiency is not always the bar, and fuel cost is one of the least problematic things when trying to shift payload into orbit. I do remember that it costs 60 million total to launch the Falcon 9, but only 2-300k to fuel it.

1-3% more power is something that helps shifting the rocket equation to your favor in some edge cases. At a couple thousand Dollars per kg payload, even double the fuel cost is easily recoverable by a few percent more bang per liter.
To be honest, I don`t understand at all how it`s related to this thread as it has no relations to germans and to the Second World war that you mentioned in your answer. The only think I wanna figure out here is the oppinion of other people to this new type of rocket fuel that was remade from plastic waste
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by GuppyShark »

LaCroix is 100% correct, the lengths rocketry goes to squeeze out deltaV, even 1% would be worth having more expensive fuel. Rocket fuel is a fairly edge case for kerosene though, so that alone won't encourage this technology to scale. It might become something a rocket company mostly just does for PR.

Nobody's mentioned WW2. Are you referring to LaCroix's signature?
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

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One thing we need to ask is how plug and play this fuel is with existing engine designs. If it works with no, or very limited, changes it could be viable if it requires a redesign of even 20% of the system it'll be a complete non-starter. If it causes any extra fouling or wear on a reusable engine that will also kill this as a fuel. There will also be questions about how well the fuel holds up after months in storage as may well happen on a mission to mars or for a ship at a moonbase that can't yet make and deploy its own fuel.

There's so much more to rocket fuel than just making a rocket go up with a bit of extra force.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

GuppyShark wrote: 2021-04-13 01:48pm LaCroix is 100% correct, the lengths rocketry goes to squeeze out deltaV, even 1% would be worth having more expensive fuel. Rocket fuel is a fairly edge case for kerosene though, so that alone won't encourage this technology to scale. It might become something a rocket company mostly just does for PR.

Nobody's mentioned WW2. Are you referring to LaCroix's signature?
Yeah, I`ve accidentally mentioned LaCroix's signature, I confused it with and the answer, sorry for that). I agree with in the point that it might be as a PR compaign. But I like the idea that we can use plastic waste to make rocket fuel. We`ve got tons of of plastic waste all around the world, so we can mae some benefit from it.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

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Jub wrote: 2021-04-13 02:44pm One thing we need to ask is how plug and play this fuel is with existing engine designs. If it works with no, or very limited, changes it could be viable if it requires a redesign of even 20% of the system it'll be a complete non-starter. If it causes any extra fouling or wear on a reusable engine that will also kill this as a fuel. There will also be questions about how well the fuel holds up after months in storage as may well happen on a mission to mars or for a ship at a moonbase that can't yet make and deploy its own fuel.

There's so much more to rocket fuel than just making a rocket go up with a bit of extra force.
Yes, the question is if we can use that kind of petrol for long space journeys. I guess that at that point of the development of pentrol we cannot. But still, I guess it can be used for small space launches all around the world like launches of microsatellites which are very frequently used these days.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by GuppyShark »

The good news is kerosene is mostly used for aviation jet fuel. If they can get the cost down to be competitive, we can have our airlines running on recycled fuel which... I guess would still contribute to climate change, but it would at least be recycling.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

The new green rocket fuel is better than kerosene. This new kind of rocket fuel has already been tested and the result of the test has shown that it`s 1% - 3% better than kerosene by its energy characteristics. But I am not sure if it`s possible to use the new rocket fuel in long space journeys.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

However, the alternative rocket fuel also called as a green fuel can be remade only from particular types of plastic.The following types of plastic can be converted into ecosene fuel: Polypropylene (PP).
Polyester (PE).
Polystyrene (PS) and their mixtures and analogs
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by Bedlam »

How much energy does it take to convert the plastic into the fuel?

You might end up creating far more CO2 from the process than if you made the kerosene directly, although obviously if you can generate that power from non fossil fuel sources that's not an issue.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

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jerry66 wrote: 2021-04-15 03:53am Polypropylene (PP).
Polyester (PE).
Polystyrene (PS) and their mixtures and analogs
Which are pretty much 75+% (low ball estimate) in volume of the commonly used plastics ending up in trash.(along with PVC)
Since PP and PS are classified "non-recyleable", they would be the prime candidates for it.
PE recycling is a better use of ressources.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.
jerry66
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

That makes ecosene fuel even more beneficial invention. The usage of plastic waste in that way would be more useful and beneficial as we have tons of it all arount the globe. To sum up it could be a great chance to clean the environment from plastic waste.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by Sky Captain »

Real question is what does it costs per kg? Spaceflight is a very small niche consumer of fuel and most of the new big reusable rockets in development will use methane anyway. Airplanes consume most of the kerosene produced. If production can be scaled up and costs brought down to be comparable with regular kerosene then there may be a real deal otherwise it will remain a niche product where cost is of little concern, but squeezing out the last bits of performance is everything.
As far as performance goes kerosene is nothing special. Hydrogen is far superior, but it is very bulky and generally PITA to handle, require heavy tanks that offset some of performance gains. If this new fuel have similar density to regular kerosene, but a bit higher specific impulse then a rocket with same size fuel tanks will get more delta v which for small satellite launcher may translate into few extra payload kilograms to orbit.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by Solauren »

What are the waste products from the plastic-waste to rocket fuel?
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by Jub »

Solauren wrote: 2021-04-25 12:04pm What are the waste products from the plastic-waste to rocket fuel?
We should also know what the carbon footprint of the conversion process is as well. Recycling can end up being worse than dumping in some cases if we're not careful about how we approach things.
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Re: Can we remake plastic waste into rocket fuel?

Post by jerry66 »

Jub wrote: 2021-04-25 06:35pm
Solauren wrote: 2021-04-25 12:04pm What are the waste products from the plastic-waste to rocket fuel?
We should also know what the carbon footprint of the conversion process is as well. Recycling can end up being worse than dumping in some cases if we're not careful about how we approach things.
Yeah, that`s a good point. I don`t know exectly about that aspect but scientists who worken on this project of ecosence rocket fuel claim that this type of fuel is eco friendly. Personally I think that there is some procent of harmful gases that are released while this type of fuel is being used.
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