Best Star Wars space battle?

[Havok]

There is still a 'weight' that models have, as well as detail, that CGI still just haven't managed to capture.

[Knife]

There is still a 'weight' that models have, as well as detail, that CGI still just haven't managed to capture.

I would agree. While CGI can do some really cool stuff, and I like the Battle of Coruscant; it just doesn't feel the same as stuff like the Battle of Endor. But it is what it is.

[fractalsponge1]

Nonsense, CGI can do much better than physical models; you just have to add about 2x the detail as on the same physical model to look better. Sadly, people rarely bother with this, probably for some BS reason like "not a big enough renderfarm."

+1 to Endor and asteroid chase as the best.

[Iroscato]

I would say the first few seconds of the battle over Coruscant in Sith are the most thrilling cinematic experiences I've ever had. I was 11 at the time, the same age my dad was when he saw the original Star Wars, and in those few seconds I knew what it must have been like for him. It was a mixture of the glorious CGI, the way the sun kissed the surface of everything it touched, and the thumping boom-BOOM of the drums as the two fighters weaved in and out of the furious battle.

Blockbuster perfection, at least until the talking started
Aaah, I'm off to watch it again I think...

[Havok]

Nonsense, CGI can do much better than physical models; you just have to add about 2x the detail as on the same physical model to look better. Sadly, people rarely bother with this, probably for some BS reason like "not a big enough renderfarm."

Well until I see it in a movie, CGI sucks compared to physical models.

[Darth Nostril]

Because it's too clean, for some reason CGI modellers forget that real working vehicles get dirty and battered.

[fractalsponge1]

If you want to see something that is as good as a physical model could be, look at Transformers. In wars, the ep3 clones were pretty good as well. Spaceships, neo galactica was a good model, if not as over the top detailed as the original studio version.

The Venator CGI model pales in comparison to the Avenger in terms of detail added, but there's no actual limit on how much detail you can add it you were willing. Physical models, not so much. There's nothing wrong with CGI itself for FX, it's computing and time limitations and shortcut-taking. Plus you can "fake" CGI much more easily than you can with a physical model. It is also, somewhat paradoxically, easier to make the detail itself for starship models physically when starting from scratch, since you can basically shake n'bake a crapload of Tamiya model kits.

The main benefit of CGI is that you can do things with the camera and effects that you can't, or wouldn't want to, do with an 8-foot greebled physical model. Unfortunately, the impression I get is that for spaceships, most times the models are built to "good enough" for rapidly-moving action sequences rather than actually trying to make it as good looking in all respects as a physical model. You fill in regions if you're going to zoom in, but if it's always background or in quick action shots, that doesn't get done. Hobbyists can add a lot more detail because their results don't need to be animated or done on a demanding schedule.

[aussiemuscle308]

i most like the battle of Yavin. battles after that tend to have too much 'crap' on screen that makes it impossible to see any detail. I especially hate the prequels for this, having too much on screen at once.

[Elfdart]

I disagree. CGI gets dated very fast and for some reason, did not look as realistic as the models in the original trilogy.

I think that has more to do with the cinematography. When the OT was made, they used a lot of soft lighting and soft focus. The prequels were shot (mostly) with brighter lighting and sharper focus. This has the same effect on spaceships as it does on the faces actresses, only you can't use makeup on spaceships.

Or can you?

[Elfdart]

My favorite battle has to be Yavin. The scenario, the pacing, the music, the editing were all perfect. On top of that, there's no scene in any of the other battles as magical as when Obi-Wan gets Luke to use The Force instead of his targeting computer.

The two chases (I don't really think of them as battles since the Falcon is just running for its life) in TESB were great. The first one ("Shut him up or shut him down!") has already been covered. The second one gets overlooked, but the escape from Bespin (from when Luke summons Leia with telepathy to when the Falcon jumps into hyperspace and the Admiral is left with this "How am I going to explain this?" look on his face as Vader walks off) is much better than the other battles or chases in space in the rest of the series.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Yavin is IMHO the finest of the series, but I would love to see what they could do with Endor with modern CGI and SFX, provided it didn't become a rehash of the battle from ROTS.

[darkwolf29a]

I do think that if the movies had been told in order: 1-6...we wouldn't even be having this conversation..i.e. Endor would win hands down. Yavin is okay, but Endor was better. ROTS has a bigger feel, but the droids do detract from the overall effect.

[fractalsponge1]

I disagree. CGI gets dated very fast and for some reason, did not look as realistic as the models in the original trilogy.

I think that has more to do with the cinematography. When the OT was made, they used a lot of soft lighting and soft focus. The prequels were shot (mostly) with brighter lighting and sharper focus. This has the same effect on spaceships as it does on the faces actresses, only you can't use makeup on spaceships.

Or can you?

Soft shadows and depth-of-field effects are a lot more computationally intensive to render, though I still think the main problem is that there just isn't as much detail on a Venator as say, the Avenger studio model.

Oh, and I can't believe I didn't say this sooner, but the opening chase in ANH was priceless, if only for the underbelly shot of Devastator flying past. Epic.

[Panzersharkcat]

Endor. The music when reporting in and several "Oh, crap" moments. Incidentally, Gray Leader in ROTJ and Gold Leader in ANH were my favorite Rebel pilots. I just liked their voices.

[gigawatt666]

Agh... it seems I'm thinking CGI is better than actually is. Those old models used in the original SW trilogy were really well done.

As a side note, you commented the exhange of fire between a Rebel Nebulon-B and an Imperial ship. Wasn't that ship the Executor and not an ordinary ISD?.

Indeed, the Neb-B was broadsiding the trench of the Executor.

heh, just signed up. Not starting a 'thing', but to scale, look at the Neb-B and you can 'see' the Falcon slung to it's underbelly a la the final scene in Ep. IV. During the Executor's chase of the Falcon, Solo's ship gets so close with that part of Vader's ship it looks like it's doing a 'trench run'. The Falcon, when it attached itself to the command pod of the Avenger, took up a large portion of the back of the bridge. I don't think it's close. Neb-B vs. a regular ISD.

[Darth Tedious]

heh, just signed up. Not starting a 'thing', but to scale, look at the Neb-B and you can 'see' the Falcon slung to it's underbelly a la the final scene in Ep. IV. During the Executor's chase of the Falcon, Solo's ship gets so close with that part of Vader's ship it looks like it's doing a 'trench run'. The Falcon, when it attached itself to the command pod of the Avenger, took up a large portion of the back of the bridge. I don't think it's close. Neb-B vs. a regular ISD.

Hey! That was the final scene of Episode V!
But yeah, you might be onto something there...

[gigawatt666]

heh, just signed up. Not starting a 'thing', but to scale, look at the Neb-B and you can 'see' the Falcon slung to it's underbelly a la the final scene in Ep. IV. During the Executor's chase of the Falcon, Solo's ship gets so close with that part of Vader's ship it looks like it's doing a 'trench run'. The Falcon, when it attached itself to the command pod of the Avenger, took up a large portion of the back of the bridge. I don't think it's close. Neb-B vs. a regular ISD.

Hey! That was the final scene of Episode V!
But yeah, you might be onto something there...

you are factually correct. oops

[Stofsk]

As punishment, you must rewatch the original trilogy to redeem yourself.

[fractalsponge1]

heh, just signed up. Not starting a 'thing', but to scale, look at the Neb-B and you can 'see' the Falcon slung to it's underbelly a la the final scene in Ep. IV. During the Executor's chase of the Falcon, Solo's ship gets so close with that part of Vader's ship it looks like it's doing a 'trench run'. The Falcon, when it attached itself to the command pod of the Avenger, took up a large portion of the back of the bridge. I don't think it's close. Neb-B vs. a regular ISD.

Except that the model used here was the same, I believe, as the detailed trench section used in Episode V. Besides, an ISD's trench is maybe...30m tall? How tall do you think a Nebulon-B is? A lot more than 30m.

[Darth Tedious]

If this chart is accurate, it would appear to be in between an ISD and SSD in scale...

/shrugs

As punishment, you must rewatch the original trilogy to redeem yourself.

That'll learn him!

[PainRack]

I know that others won't agree with me, but for some strange reason, Han escape from the Death Star had a really huge impact on me.

I don't know, its probably a combination of Obiwan death, Luke stepping up to the mantle and the its not over yet, hear me baby, hold together lines that made this one of the more enjoyable battle scenes for me.

Its just really odd, since the fight scene was essentially TIE fighters buzzing past the falcon amidst an old WW2 bomber film sequence but I think its the dialogue that secured it for me.

[StarSword]

If this chart is accurate, it would appear to be in between an ISD and SSD in scale...

/shrugs

Which would make it an SSD, but not the Executor.

I know everyone always thinks of the Executor-class star dreadnought when someone says "super star destroyer", but in the EU in particular, SSD became a catchall term for any wedge-shaped ship bigger than an Impstar Deuce.

That's off-topic, though. I favor Endor, because it's the only battle in the original trilogy where we get to see a full-scale duel between Rebel and Imperial capital ships. As someone said earlier, kinda hard not to enjoy watching enough energy to power Earth for hundreds of years being thrown around like baseballs.

Plus, a strong showing by Rogue Squadron and Lando Calrissian in a "target-rich environment." (As an aside, I don't know where Mike gets the idea on the main site that the big balls atop star destroyers aren't shield generators, or at least shield projectors, when we see the following scene. Rebel fighters (A-Wings, I think) launch a volley of missiles at one of these balls, located atop the Executor. It explodes. Camera cuts to the Executor's bridge, shaking ferociously. Camera stops shaking. Imperial officer looks at display, then yells to Adm. Piett, "Sir, we've lost our bridge deflector shields!")

And then, after the DS2's shield goes down, they dive into the thing, flying at combat speeds in a confined space, all the while ducking potshots from a flight of squints* that had the cojones to follow them.

* You can see how much I liked the X-Wing series.