The Galactic Empire versus The Borg and Species 8472

[Azron_Stoma]

The whole 8472 Blowing up a planet thing reminds me of SF Debris Opinionated Guide Review for Scorpion, where he mentions how the only way that could have been a planet would be if the Cubes were the size of India.

In all fairness, I doubt Chuck was entirely serious on that point, for any number of reasons:*snip*.

I know, It was just a funny idea that's all.

As per the OP, I feel that 8472 would be likely rather quickly dealt with, since they don't take losses very well and are known to abandon an entire warfighting campaign after a dozen or so casualties.

I dunno about their ability to "Strike anywhere", It's been a while since i've seen scorpion but I don't recall there being anything where they can open their singularities anywhere, they probably have to travel within fluidic space and open up one to the corresponding co-ordinates in our space. I have no idea how fast this is though, but it probably works in a similar principle to Babylon 5 Hyperspace or Thirdspace (or STO Warp for that matter :p).

As for how the Empire would treat the Borg, I always theorized that they would use the threat the Borg are perceived as by the various races of the Delta Quadrant to their advantage. The thousands of species that are desperate for some way to escape or fight or otherwise be free of the risk of Borg Assimilation and giving them the opportunity to join the Empire as a protectorate in exchange for the safety they crave. This allow the Empire to effectively "conquer" large swathes of the Milky Way all the while appearing as saviours rather than tyrants.

[Lord Falcon]

I'm sorry if I've come across lately as stubborn or a rabid, die-hard "Star Trek is better" Trekkie. I'm actually more of a Warsie, but I love both fictions equally and I'm really trying to fit in around here and try to make a positive difference. I admit that I have a little bias, but at least I am willing to concede an argument if you have logical evidence to back it up and bow out quietly.

And good idea, Azron! Thanks!

Anyway......... I recently rewatched Scorpion, so here's some new points (not really arguments, but just that - points) to make regarding the Species 8472 vs. The Empire section of this thread.

1 Species 8472 can destroy planets, although it's obviously some of chain-reaction type weapon.

2 Their bioships have regenerative abilities.

3 They can infect organic beings with some viral mutative disease that eats them alive from the inside.

Those are my points. So, I guess the real questions to counter those are:

1 Can their energy weapons penetrate superior SW non-frequency shielding? Or the super heavy Death Star armor?

2 Can they regenerate fast enough before being blown to bits?

3 Can they pierce stormtrooper armor to deliver this organic virus?

There. Anyone have any thoughts?

[Serafina]

1 Species 8472 can destroy planets, although it's obviously some of chain-reaction type weapon.

Since it is a chain-reaction, it will most likely be much weaker against shields. All relevant planets in the Empire have planetary shields, so it's quite likely that Species 8472 can not actually destroy them.
Furthermore, they require several ships set up all around the planet, so Star Wars forces could easily destroy these ships before they can fire.

2 Their bioships have regenerative abilities.

Neat. So do Star Wars ships, it's called moving into a space dock and getting repairs.
Regeneration is really not that useful in battle unless you overpower the enemy and only take scratch damage. This is definitely not the case with the Empire.

3 They can infect organic beings with some viral mutative disease that eats them alive from the inside.

Worthless in space combat. In ground combat, it requires melee attacks, which is also almost worthless - unless you are in extremely confined quarters, but you are NOT going to fight in boarding actions and win battles with it. Planetary combat will have lot's of open battles.

1 Can their energy weapons penetrate superior SW non-frequency shielding? Or the super heavy Death Star armor?

If they are anywhere near Star Trek firepowers (they have to be, otherwise Voyager would never have survived), no, they can't unless they attack in very large numbers.

2 Can they regenerate fast enough before being blown to bits?

Do your own research. Against Star Wars ships, they can't.

3 Can they pierce stormtrooper armor to deliver this organic virus?

Irrelevant question. If you can pierce the armor, you can kill them anyway - you know, via these mundane things called "injuries". The relevant question is "can they get into melee", and at best they demonstrate slightly higher running speeds - guess what, we can do that via horses as well and still do not use cavalry on modern battlefields.


Again, Species 8472 stands no chance against the Empire. When compared to other Trek-powers, they only have two advantages: planet-killing weapons and fluid space.
The former is unlikely to work and can easily be countered. The latter has a lot of unknown properties, for example we simply do not know if it can be opened anywhere or just in certain regions of space, or how fast the travel it allows is. Even under the most generous assumptions, it is not much better than Star Wars hyperdrives.

[Batman]

While I think Serafina has pretty much dealt with most of it, I'm bored, and besides , you did ask for anybody's thoughts.

1 Can their energy weapons penetrate superior SW non-frequency shielding? Or the super heavy Death Star armor?

Highly unlikely given the resilience differential. At best, you can speculate if the planetkiller combo can take out a Star Wars capital ship, and the answer to that is likely going to be 'no idea' because we simply don't know how that planetkiller worked.
Of course one would wonder why they lived long enough to fire while we're at it.

2 Can they regenerate fast enough before being blown to bits?

As Trek ships are instakills for MTLs (possibly LTLs if you're feeling malevolent) and up and 8472 didn't seem to be noticeably tougher, no.

3 Can they pierce stormtrooper armor to deliver this organic virus?

If they somehow manage to live long enough to try this, probably yes. The body glove doesn't seem to be all that more resilient than modern day fabrics.

[Coalition]

I can just imagine an Imperial officer seeing the Bioships blow up some minor planet, and remember his briefings on Fluidic Space. As the bioships are heading back into their rift, he orders the gunnery decks to load the heaviest strategic warhead available, and fire it into the rift. When is second in command asks why, the Captain replies with, "ever toss a grenade in a lake? Same thing, bigger grenade". Fluidic space then gets a massive shockwave from the obscene warhead going off.


This is assuming they have strategic warheads available. If not, he'll set the main guns to the right setting, and depth charge Fluidic space with flak-burst main guns. Transmitting the results to the rest of the fleet, the other planets get the necessary upgrades. From then on, any Fluidic space rifts in range get a turbolaser special. If just the ships come out, they get blasted. Eventually 8472 will learn.

[Lord Falcon]

Everyone, I'd like to thank you. You've been patient and understanding with my clumsy words and given me some great answers. I will definitely be remembering this for my story. Ok, bowing out now. If anyone wants to continue this, go ahead, but I'm done here.

Thanks once again.