The Yuuzhan Vong vs Species 8472

[Star Wars 888]

The Yuuzhan Vong fleet and Species 8472 both discover a wormhole that connects the Star Wars and Star Trek galaxies. Both are intend on destroying one another.

Who wins?

[IvanTih]

Yuuhzhan Vong win they go toe to toe with New Republic ships which throw a great amount of firepower,wasn't that planet destroying thing a chain reaction thing(8742).

[BLACKSUN2000]

Yeah the 8472 were using a chain reaction weapon, the 8 smaller ships had to channel their energy into a larger 9th ship, the resulting explosion as seen here:






There are several things to be noted the planet blows AFTER the beam has stopped firing, while they fire the beam you see ejecta somthing that wasn't seen in "The Die Is Cast". The destruction itself took almost 14 seconds(8-9 seconds actually show firing the beam and almost a full 2 seconds without the beam BEFORE the planet blows and about 3-4 seconds that are unaccounted for).

So at MAX it took 6 seconds to blow after the beam stopped firing. Most definitely a chain-reaction event.

[SeaTrooper]

There are several things to be noted the planet blows AFTER the beam has stopped firing, while they fire the beam you see ejecta somthing that wasn't seen in "The Die Is Cast". The destruction itself took almost 14 seconds(8-9 seconds actually show firing the beam and almost a full 2 seconds without the beam BEFORE the planet blows and about 3-4 seconds that are unaccounted for).

So at MAX it took 6 seconds to blow after the beam stopped firing. Most definitely a chain-reaction event.

Curious. Is this the first time we've ever seen ejecta from an attacked planet in ST? I'm not talking about TDiC, where what little reaction there was seemed very confined in scope. A chain reaction effect seems reasonable, but might there also be some 'matter' (plasma, charged particles, whathaveyou) in that stream to cause this apparent splash effect?

[Azron_Stoma]

Hard to say but it's also important to note that the central vessel is NOT a regular 8472 ship as well, and during that chargeup they'd be sitting ducks.

[SeaTrooper]

Very true, but you gotta be fast! They seemed to charge up and fire in seconds, while both VOY and the Borg were just looking on stupidly. Given the extremely short ranges that even Borg cubes typically engage at, by the time an 8472 formation is in range of a planet it may already be too late.

But this thread was originally about the Vong. Wouldn't basal vaysins (how the hell do you spell that?) kind of wreck that sort of combined energy attack?

[BLACKSUN2000]

But this thread was originally about the Vong. Wouldn't basal vaysins (how the hell do you spell that?) kind of wreck that sort of combined energy attack?

Oh you mean Dovin basals?

Yeah they form gravity wells and were used to pull down an entire moon onto a planet. As for the vong ships, for all we know a descent sized one would cause the mid-ship to implode or make the chain-reaction loose control and destroy all the 8472 ships just using the gravitational power in it's Dovin basals, or hell what would happen if they shot a magma canon at the center ship several thousands tons of liquid magma hitting a ship channeling a chain-reaction can never good.

OR they could use this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Singularity_mine

[Azron_Stoma]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Singularity_mine

Wow, that's some great data there Blacksun, great for sticking in the faces of Trektards who wank to Red Matter too. Those mines are even better since the enemy won't even notice the bloody thing until it's too late.

Plus in Star Wars they use real Black Holes, not the fake ones like in Star Trek XI that you might survive getting "sucked" into.

[BLACKSUN2000]

Thanks.

Yeah it seems there are different dovin basal variants. Each one maniupulates gravity or whatever to cause different gravitational effects.

About those mines, you are totally right Azron, I seriously doubt they are going to detect them in a heated battle.

Yeah another thing is that 8472 were such pussies that they ran away after taking a few dozen casualties. PWNED.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Are Vong in this scenario in control of any SW worlds or are they still in their nomad ships? 8472's planet-busting weapon won't be much good if it's the latter case

[SeaTrooper]

OR they could use this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Singularity_mine

Yeah, gotta be better than those craptastic wannabe mines seen in AR-558. What the hell was the point of those things?

We should also consider 8472s level of morale and motivation. Everything was bright and shiny for them, while they were winning against the Borg. But bring in Lameway and a few reverses, and they do a Monty Python..... Run away, run away! My impression from that story arc was that their willingness to prosecute a war was just a tad shakey. Compare that to the Vong, who were only 'beaten' by internal politics and religious wankery.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The vong win. for certain. They slugged it out with the New Republic and had them on the ropes for some time. It's more than likley they have more ships and considerably more power than 8472

They are willing to fight to the death, they even think it's GOOD to fight to the death, they have a fondness of genocide of planets and are very skilled with bioweapons. I see no rason why they couldn't engineer a biological version of the nanite shit voyager used

Or they could just smash 8472 ships with enormous magama cannons and collapse the "quantum singularities" with dovin basals

I wonder what would happen if they seeded flidic space with a series of massive dovin basal mines?

[SeaTrooper]

Or they could just smash 8472 ships with enormous magama cannons and collapse the "quantum singularities" with dovin basals

I wonder what would happen if they seeded fluidic space with a series of massive dovin basal mines?

Ooh, nasty! I like it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I have my moments.

In all honesty, this fight would be a totaly curbstomp. The only thing in the Species 8472s favour is that they use biotech stuff, so they may not be as hated by the YV as the Republic and their evil metal spaceships. And even then, the YV would probably still hate them because of species 8472's apparent lack of interest in the Gods. Ergo, they are heretics/blasphemers/apostates, punishable by death in the Yuuzhan Vong

So you're back to curbstomp

[fallendragon]

The vong win. for certain. They slugged it out with the New Republic and had them on the ropes for some time. It's more than likley they have more ships and considerably more power than 8472

They are willing to fight to the death, they even think it's GOOD to fight to the death, they have a fondness of genocide of planets and are very skilled with bioweapons. I see no rason why they couldn't engineer a biological version of the nanite shit voyager used

Or they could just smash 8472 ships with enormous magama cannons and collapse the "quantum singularities" with dovin basals

I wonder what would happen if they seeded flidic space with a series of massive dovin basal mines?

Ummm, how excatly are the Vong suppost to seed fluidic space. Fuck, how are they suppost to access it even? And someone tell me why the Vong would be using anti-personal mines in a space fight?

While Species 8472 really can't lose, I can't see them winning either.

[Batman]

Excuse me, dovin basal mines are anti personell how again? The stupidity that was the NJO was what make me give up on the EU novels but I'm seriously certain that at least until I DID give up on it, dovin basals were almost if not completely exclusively used in space combat.

[fallendragon]

The Singularity mine that got brought up, I bothered to click the link and it has people stepping on it, but very true dovin basals themselves were often used in space.

[Batman]

Ah. One more reminder why I hate the NJO. APERS dovin basal mines conceded.

[SeaTrooper]

I wonder what would happen if they seeded fluidic space with a series of massive dovin basal mines?

Ummm, how excatly are the Vong suppost to seed fluidic space. Fuck, how are they supposed to access it even? And someone tell me why the Vong would be using anti-personal mines in a space fight?
While Species 8472 really can't lose, I can't see them winning either.

Probably the same way Voy did, use one already created by 8472 or the Borg.

Actually, we never did get an explaination of what 'fluidic space' actually is that's good enough to determine the effects of point gravitic sources. I would suspect that dovin basals would fuck them up pretty severely, but that relies entirely on fluidic space having form and substance. In a vacuum, such point gravitic sources have sharply limited range and effect, due the inverse square law restrictions. But if fluidic space is actually a fluid-filled region (and it hardly matters of what) and complies to the normal rules of hydro-dynamics, then a single dovin basal would begin sucking that stuff in. Before long, you'll whirlpools and what might be similar to spacial cascades; depending on how long a dovin basal can remain active.

This is why I thought Eternal_Freedom's idea of laying mines so very, very nasty...

[fallendragon]

Actually turns out my question was even dumber then that (although not sure how well the use there portals to tavel into fluidic space would actually work), but as the borg used quantum singularities as interdimensional rifts to get to them in the first place.... (memory alpha)

And fluidic space is just that, it lacks stars but is nothing but fluid so if you can retune a Singularity mine for space combat that should prove just as nasty as was expected.

[Eternal_Freedom]

When I said massive dovin basal mine I was thinking more along the lines of the huge ones the Vong used as a substitute for planetary shields in "the Unifying Force." Or the one they dropped on Sernpidal and Kalaarba to pull down the moons.

And it was stated about fluidic space that "this isn't space...its matter" by Torres, which is odd, so it would pull in lots of it, setting up all manner of waes and whirlpools. Given enough time, it might pull all of fluidic space into a singularity. Which would be a rather permenant end to Species 8472

[Baffalo]

And it was stated about fluidic space that "this isn't space...its matter" by Torres, which is odd, so it would pull in lots of it, setting up all manner of waes and whirlpools. Given enough time, it might pull all of fluidic space into a singularity. Which would be a rather permenant end to Species 8472

Don't forget that as black holes begin sucking in matter, they grow larger. That means that the more matter sucked in, the singularity would grow, thus fueling the singularity to grow larger and suck in more matter. Eventually, the entire region would either become a vacuum or implode into a single massive singularity. Which would royally suck.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ah, so in the words of my friendly guy, "omnicide"

Sounds like a rather permenant solution to the problem of Species 8472. Which, just lends credence to it being a curbstomp by the Vong. They can obliterate the entire enemy space and species and home with a (probably) fairly small number of weapons, while containing the 8472 ships with their usual brutal weaponry and tactics

[Baffalo]

Ah, so in the words of my friendly guy, "omnicide"

Sounds like a rather permenant solution to the problem of Species 8472. Which, just lends credence to it being a curbstomp by the Vong. They can obliterate the entire enemy space and species and home with a (probably) fairly small number of weapons, while containing the 8472 ships with their usual brutal weaponry and tactics

Which raises a fairly disturbing question: How fucking retarded are the Borg? Remember, Voyager is supposed to have taken place roughly on par with First Contact, so Starfleet had quantum torpedoes. Now, of course the Borg got their asses handed to them, but still. Considering the Borg assimilate technology, would they have made the connection that fluid space could be completely destroyed with a quantum singularity?

Since in First Contact the Borg no doubt learned that the Federation used quantum singularities bottled up inside torpedoes, wouldn't that just give them a huge reason to try and conquer Earth? Or even better, the Romulans? The Romulans drive their ships with the damned things! Just take a bunch of captured warbirds, overload their singularities inside fluid space, and just let everything go completely to shit.

Or better yet, the Borg could use the one thing they want more than technology to kick Species 8472 in what passes for male genitals: The Omega Particle. It's been established that the Omega particle has enouch power to lay waste to almost an entire planet, and the Borg certainly love getting their little hands on them, so why not put some of those things to work? It's taking what they deem to be 'perfection' and using it to elimate a major obsticle in the way of obtaining perfection themselves.

All First Contact has done is give the Borg a major handicap in the form of a sado-masachist who really needs to get laid.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ah, so in the words of my friendly guy, "omnicide"

Sounds like a rather permenant solution to the problem of Species 8472. Which, just lends credence to it being a curbstomp by the Vong. They can obliterate the entire enemy space and species and home with a (probably) fairly small number of weapons, while containing the 8472 ships with their usual brutal weaponry and tactics

Which raises a fairly disturbing question: How fucking retarded are the Borg? Remember, Voyager is supposed to have taken place roughly on par with First Contact, so Starfleet had quantum torpedoes. Now, of course the Borg got their asses handed to them, but still. Considering the Borg assimilate technology, would they have made the connection that fluid space could be completely destroyed with a quantum singularity?

Since in First Contact the Borg no doubt learned that the Federation used quantum singularities bottled up inside torpedoes, wouldn't that just give them a huge reason to try and conquer Earth? Or even better, the Romulans? The Romulans drive their ships with the damned things! Just take a bunch of captured warbirds, overload their singularities inside fluid space, and just let everything go completely to shit.

Or better yet, the Borg could use the one thing they want more than technology to kick Species 8472 in what passes for male genitals: The Omega Particle. It's been established that the Omega particle has enouch power to lay waste to almost an entire planet, and the Borg certainly love getting their little hands on them, so why not put some of those things to work? It's taking what they deem to be 'perfection' and using it to elimate a major obsticle in the way of obtaining perfection themselves.

All First Contact has done is give the Borg a major handicap in the form of a sado-masachist who really needs to get laid.

Given that the Borg apparently have absolutely zero imagination for ideas or technology (hence why they assimilate things and people) I don't find it surprising at all they didn't think up such an idea

On a side note, I think you might have Quantum torpedoes wrong. IIRC, its not a quantum singularity but rather a ZPF effect. Or some technobabble to that effect.

Even if they do have such an idea, it would take a lot of time and effort to put the plan into action, certainly a lot more than using Voyager's nanite plan, and the ever-effecient collective will go wit the easier option