Christopher Nolan to take over Superman.

[Temujin]

Even Timmverse fails in this perspective, they never use the whole of Superman very well. Even in his depowered form, he has incredible sensory upgrades, speed, endurance, flight, strength, and a host of ranged abilities. Yet they use him so many times as some inept flying Hulk with possible laser vision when he cares to remember it.

Whatever power level, I'd like someone to fucking realize his entire array and use them intelligently rather then "Shit! He can't punch something down...whatever can he do!!!!". That would make for a good start.

That's been one of my pet peeves as well. He's supposed to have superior intelligence, so I'd like to see him utilize that along with the rest of his powers to defeat his opponents in creative ways instead of "Supes Smash". After all, these battles in the middle of the city put at risk the same people he's suppose to be protecting, yet he casually behaves like a brain dead jock and tries to punch his problems away.

[Ghost Rider]

I won't even pretend I can argue any of that But at least Timmverse Clark was massively inconsistent on a NOT planet shattering power level.

The bit of planet buster Superman is, it's easy. Writing a tale where Superman can't truimph by punching is used up quickly because he has nothing else on some levels. Especially when combined how the iconic look is to make him perky 99% of the times, most won't look deeper.

So what do you do if you're a comic book writer and you have to pump out 12 stories or really 5 and a crossover? Go the route that sustained the Silver Age for nearly it's entire span! Given how many of these cracker fucks are still masturbating to it, and the love of people still purchasing it, it works pretty damn well. You keep power creeping him with villains that are only beatable by new revelations of power, or whatever until he can has Krypto super matter manipulation(and only remember it when you absolutely need him to face off his Dark God from Universe J) and there you go. The real difference of Superman for the last 20 years and shounen manga? Superman really doesn't convert a bad guy into joining him with the power of love/anal sex/heart. He punches them until they go down, but never dead! Dead is for dark evil people or those accidental mishaps .

All in all that is going to be the hardest issue for Nolan or anyone. Balancing him as a character with enough power that you don't succumb to powering up or down and making someone challenge him on a variety of levels.

Course this also means not succumbing to Clark Kent aka Supertard, but one lives in hope.

[Ghost Rider]

Even Timmverse fails in this perspective, they never use the whole of Superman very well. Even in his depowered form, he has incredible sensory upgrades, speed, endurance, flight, strength, and a host of ranged abilities. Yet they use him so many times as some inept flying Hulk with possible laser vision when he cares to remember it.

Whatever power level, I'd like someone to fucking realize his entire array and use them intelligently rather then "Shit! He can't punch something down...whatever can he do!!!!". That would make for a good start.

That's been one of my pet peeves as well. He's supposed to have superior intelligence, so I'd like to see him utilize that along with the rest of his powers to defeat his opponents in creative ways instead of "Supes Smash". After all, these battles in the middle of the city put at risk the same people he's suppose to be protecting, yet he casually behaves like a brain dead jock and tries to punch his problems away.

It is a peeve that I wish more would see. His intelligence should be shown more to the forefront along with his powers. Yes, it makes it a monstrous task but at least it would up the quality by the fact you could see why he is regarded as the greatest of them.

[Batman]

DOES he have superior intelligence these days? I know he had super EVERYTHING in the bad old days but from what I've seen (which is by no means a representative sample) he's just a fairly smart guy with incredible powers these days.
Mind you, given that just about EVERYBODY can apparently figure out how to better use Clark's powers than CLARK can that's likely a pretty moot point.

[Ghost Rider]

DOES he have superior intelligence these days? I know he had super EVERYTHING in the bad old days but from what I've seen (which is by no means a representative sample) he's just a fairly smart guy with incredible powers these days.
Mind you, given that just about EVERYBODY can apparently figure out how to better use Clark's powers than CLARK can that's likely a pretty moot point.

Actually his intelligence these days is actually rather high for human standards, that is if you still put beings like Batman and other such luminaries as human intelligence.

[Batman]

Batman intelligence includes telling Clark, who could've fixed the wrecked Gotham of NML in a matter of days at worst, to get LOST.When if he told me 'And if I don't you'll do-what,exactly?' I could basically sulk at him.
Which of course says someting about Clark's intelligence too I guess.

[Crazedwraith]

I just hope the use the Stan Lee version of Superman.

[Gramzamber]

Batman intelligence includes telling Clark, who could've fixed the wrecked Gotham of NML in a matter of days at worst, to get LOST.When if he told me 'And if I don't you'll do-what,exactly?' I could basically sulk at him.
Which of course says someting about Clark's intelligence too I guess.

That's because Batman is totally awesome and doesn't need any help from any stupid super-powered heroes and their stupid super powers because they're stupid!
Or so a lot of writers seem to think anyway.

[Oskuro]

I just hope the use the Stan Lee version of Superman.

You mean Blondie McCoatTails?

That's because Batman is totally awesome and doesn't need any help from any stupid super-powered heroes and their stupid super powers because they're stupid!
Or so a lot of writers seem to think anyway.

Here, see where that leads: Linkara's Act of God Review Part 1, Part 2, part 3.

[Gramzamber]

Here, see where that leads: Linkara's Act of God Review Part 1, Part 2, part 3.

That was what was actually on my mind as I wrote that about Batman.

[Batman]

That was a rather entertaining review, actually, and other than the complaint about Supergirl and the first part freezing on me halfway through I tend to agree with it.
Of course a lot of the points brought up are endemic to pretty much ALL of superhero comics.

[Ghost Rider]

Here, see where that leads: Linkara's Act of God Review Part 1, Part 2, part 3.

Fuck, I remember reading that shit, and I do enjoy his points of Superman, Wonder Woman, GL and so many others. It is like most of elseworlds, there is only a bare few gems out of a mountain of shit.

And I place Red Son in the shit category because the ending was pure moronic twist, let alone Superman's, Brainiac's and Luthor's being dipshit douchebag plans to "HAVE IT ALL WORK OUT!". Yes, morons...you could've done this far earlier in the story, oh wait we needed Superman parallels! And Mark Millar's vision of EVILMORONCOMMIE...I mean the Soviet Union. Hell, I think Shep in his most insane moments doesn't have that level of insanity.

[Batman]

Okay, that's officially scary.

[Molyneux]

Even Timmverse fails in this perspective, they never use the whole of Superman very well. Even in his depowered form, he has incredible sensory upgrades, speed, endurance, flight, strength, and a host of ranged abilities. Yet they use him so many times as some inept flying Hulk with possible laser vision when he cares to remember it.

Whatever power level, I'd like someone to fucking realize his entire array and use them intelligently rather then "Shit! He can't punch something down...whatever can he do!!!!". That would make for a good start.

That's been one of my pet peeves as well. He's supposed to have superior intelligence, so I'd like to see him utilize that along with the rest of his powers to defeat his opponents in creative ways instead of "Supes Smash". After all, these battles in the middle of the city put at risk the same people he's suppose to be protecting, yet he casually behaves like a brain dead jock and tries to punch his problems away.

I've been re-watching the Animated Series from the beginning recently, and I really think they did a great job of making him super without making him unrelatable. The first episode with the Toyman? Freaking creepy villain, and some good old-school Superman fun without forcing him to whip out a power-up just to make the end dramatic.

Also, I don't know about the later episodes, but the first few did a damn fine job showing powers other than "flying Hulk". Superspeed, senses, X-ray vision, all get used well - like when he's fighting that super-ball smashing a warehouse, he gets smacked a few times, then dodges, and then smashes the ball to powder with one shot.

[Jim Raynor]

I think that doing an origin is important for a reboot, and that that Singer made a huge mistake by leaving it out in Superman Returns. I don't want to bash that movie because it has become the comic geeks' equivalent to the Star Wars prequels (criticized far in excess of the movie's actual flaws), and I think that it was an overall good film. However, as a relaunch of the Superman franchise it was a horribly misguided failure. SR is written like the end of a Superman series, and Singer didn't help things either by insisting that it was a sequel to Donner's first and second movies, but that parts 3 and 4 didn't happen. How convoluted and inaccessible is that? The movie begins with some text telling the audience that Superman's greatest adventures, everything that made him Superman, had already happened off screen. It was pretty much a middle finger to all the kids sitting in the theater for their first Superman movie.

I don't see how the origin is any more played out than Batman's either, before Batman Begins came out. The first movie came out 32 years ago. Smallville is its own thing, and is watched by a tiny percentage of the population anyway. The Timmverse animated series came out 14 years ago. It's before the time of teenagers today. And we still haven't gotten a good modern Superman, with a Clark Kent who isn't a total dork facade, and a Lex Luthor who isn't a lame real estate conman.

As much as fanboys like to bitch about the power levels, the Timm version had it right by bringing him down a notch. The animated Superman struggled to keep a plane flying. He was bulletproof, but larger caliber guns from mecha or even helicopters could smack him around a bit.

And it's not like being bulletproof but not invincible can't work on film. I just saw the 2008 The Incredible Hulk a couple weeks ago. That hulk felt small arms fire, and even put his hands up to shield his face when he was shot at. Against machine guns, both the Hulk and the Abomination made efforts to run, dodge, and try to take out their enemies quickly, instead of just standing there as the bullets hit them.

Good points about using the full array of his powers though. Even as a kid, I always wondered why he used his heat vision so sparingly.

[Ghost Rider]

If anyone is really wondering of my beef of Superman's stupidity is when in the Timmverse he gets hurt by wired grate, hurt by mundane crap that shouldn't phase him if he can go Mach 1-50, hurt by some back hand slaps from Granny onward but at the end his BS spiel of Darkseid when goes "I R BADAZZZ!"...which wasn't exactly the first time he's did that time of dumbass powerup.

Holding back punches sure, fine, cool. But what is doing everytime he was getting bitched? Rolling with the punch to make the villain ego go up an inch?

That is what I'd love to see avoided. Stop making him get bitched then go Superman level 10 when he needs to win the day. Would it be so hard to demonstrate he always has that power and ability without neutering him or the villain?

[Molyneux]

If anyone is really wondering of my beef of Superman's stupidity is when in the Timmverse he gets hurt by wired grate, hurt by mundane crap that shouldn't phase him if he can go Mach 1-50, hurt by some back hand slaps from Granny onward but at the end his BS spiel of Darkseid when goes "I R BADAZZZ!"...which wasn't exactly the first time he's did that time of dumbass powerup.

Holding back punches sure, fine, cool. But what is doing everytime he was getting bitched? Rolling with the punch to make the villain ego go up an inch?

That is what I'd love to see avoided. Stop making him get bitched then go Superman level 10 when he needs to win the day. Would it be so hard to demonstrate he always has that power and ability without neutering him or the villain?

Could it be that he's more strong than durable, perhaps? He's taking hits that really hurt him, so he can try to avoid killing anyone.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken, that is also the canon explanation for why he doesn't use his heat-vision for everything - it's his most lethal power.

[Ghost Rider]

If anyone is really wondering of my beef of Superman's stupidity is when in the Timmverse he gets hurt by wired grate, hurt by mundane crap that shouldn't phase him if he can go Mach 1-50, hurt by some back hand slaps from Granny onward but at the end his BS spiel of Darkseid when goes "I R BADAZZZ!"...which wasn't exactly the first time he's did that time of dumbass powerup.

Holding back punches sure, fine, cool. But what is doing everytime he was getting bitched? Rolling with the punch to make the villain ego go up an inch?

That is what I'd love to see avoided. Stop making him get bitched then go Superman level 10 when he needs to win the day. Would it be so hard to demonstrate he always has that power and ability without neutering him or the villain?

Could it be that he's more strong than durable, perhaps? He's taking hits that really hurt him, so he can try to avoid killing anyone.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken, that is also the canon explanation for why he doesn't use his heat-vision for everything - it's his most lethal power.

Pfft...yeah that one dumbass explaination for his heat vision, but doesn't even to cover the fact that some of his others have nearly as lethal applications and far less control. He's able to hit nerve cells with his laser vision. His control is rather high.

As for strong but not as durable is an inane thought given the inherent reaction/action component to his punches let alone other powers on organs that are unlikely to have as much durability as his muscle or bones. As I said, I dislike because it is ignorance of basic science, logic, intelligence...take your pick and is there to give gravitas to a situation that has no need of it. Either he can do something, he has to expend extra energy or he cannot.

[Majin Gojira]

In terms of building dramatic tension? Not really--at least, not easily.

Perhaps you can construct a good example to demonstrate that it can be done.

[Ghost Rider]

In terms of building dramatic tension? Not really--at least, not easily.

Perhaps you can construct a good example to demonstrate that it can be done.

You mean no one should should raise an eyebrow that he gets affect by something that can barely go through the wall that he just smashed through and was casually flying at speeds that allowed his mass to go through it is a good measure of writing?

Good to know.

So yes, let's first set guidelines so the viewer doesn't get wrenched straight from his SoD to rationalize some halfassed "His Solar matrix was on the wane at that moment!".

Anything else to nitpick?

[Enigma]

I though the reason Superman doesn't use his heat vision much because it drains a lot of his energy. That is what I read somewhere, just don't remember where.

[Batman]

Well we ARE talking superhero comics here so everything's possible but why would it? How would, say, heating a missile to the point of mission killing it (and he doesn't even has to do that,we know he has the fine control to kill individual CIRCUITS in the missile's onboard electronics) take more of his 'juice' than punching the blasted thing off course AFTER chasing down it so he could actually lay a hand on it?
And that's ignoring all the times where he DOESN'T heat vision incoming projectiles that apparently can if not seriously hurt then at least noticeably inconvenience him. Somehow I doubt simply TAKING the hits makes for a more favourable power budget that simply killing the a safe distance away.

[Majin Gojira]

In terms of building dramatic tension? Not really--at least, not easily.

Perhaps you can construct a good example to demonstrate that it can be done.

You mean no one should should raise an eyebrow that he gets affect by something that can barely go through the wall that he just smashed through and was casually flying at speeds that allowed his mass to go through it is a good measure of writing?

Good to know.

So yes, let's first set guidelines so the viewer doesn't get wrenched straight from his SoD to rationalize some halfassed "His Solar matrix was on the wane at that moment!".

Anything else to nitpick?

Actually, I was saying "Okay, why don't you provide an example so you can better illustrate it."

[Ghost Rider]

Actually, I was saying "Okay, why don't you provide an example so you can better illustrate it."

Then I apologize for the tone.

Hell there's plenty from but the best is the CUT LOOSE sequence. Darkseid is punching and beating on Superman like a bitch, he reacts with pain multiple times...and his big moment? He does more to the enviroment then Darkseid's beating even did in the slightest.

The problem with that entire sequence? Action/reaction. If Superman can just shrug off his own hits, the speed at which he went at, and it has that much effect on Darkseid. Darkseid's shit shouldn't have phased him. You don't hold back how much your muscles/bones/whatever forcefield Superman has, you hold back how energy you apply to an event.

[Batman]

I would like to apologize for my bitching earlier. I admit to being a major Superman fanboy and not taking kindly to him being dissed.These days I think I react more rationally to criticism of ME than I do of HIM.
But GR is right, for BOTH the DCAU and the comics. You CAN'T dish out Superman level damage without being able to TAKE it. And even if we leave physics out of the equation (you punch something as hard as even Timmverse Clark has been shown to do, nevermind 'How exactly did your muscles exert that much force, how did your bones SURVIVE It? we KNOW Superman can take Superman level damage because he can actually stand up to Captain Marvel.
Unless you want to conclude that Clark actually LIKES to be worked over before he decides yeah, I guess now I actually DO have to stop you.