If you'd lived 200 years ago, would you still be alive?

[Alferd Packer]

Let's see. I've only need to take antibiotics for an infection twice, and those were probably more of a precautionary measures. Additionally, the infections weren't for cuts that got infected, just bronchitis and prostatitis. No stitches, no broken bones, no whiplash. I'd say I have a pretty good shot of making it, with an outside chance that the bronchitis would've overwhelmed me.

[Raxmei]

Of course my survival is contingent on not getting eaten by a dinosaur. Tyrannosaurus ruled the world back then, not us.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I reckon I'd likely be quite alive. I had no serious illnesses where I'd have died without the intervention of antibiotics. No broken bones, and while my bottom wisdom teeth would've impacted against the teeth in front of it, they'd have given me a shot of whiskey and yanked out the teeth they could see. The vision in my left eye isn't the best, but the right eye's more than good enough to nail a food-sized target at stalking range with a Kentucky flint-lock, or maybe one of those newfangled "percussion" rifles. I'd likely be in much better health as a young adult, without the modest amount of excess weight I carried back then.

[Anguirus]

I just want to note that 200 years ago myopia/nearsightedness was far less common. There is some suspicion it's linked to modern lifestyles and having children read a great deal at early age. In which case, since a lot of us would be illiterate, and even when not, books were expensive and few so reading was limited. In other words, just as many of us with allergies now probably wouldn't have had them 200 years ago, many of us with myopia now likewise may not have had it 200 years ago.

Really? That's interesting because I have been an avid reader ever since the age of two, and I have the worst eyesight in my family by far (started losing it around age 8 ).

Are there any primary sources about this that you have access to and can share? I've never heard an optometrist say that, but on the other hand no one's gonna say "hey kids, don't read."

Of course my survival is contingent on not getting eaten by a dinosaur. Tyrannosaurus ruled the world back then, not us.

...annnnnd thread won.

[starslayer]

Are there any primary sources about this that you have access to and can share? I've never heard an optometrist say that, but on the other hand no one's gonna say "hey kids, don't read."

Myopia does not work like Broomie has said; to my knowledge, there is no evidence that extensive reading from an early age causes misshapen corneas. It may do something similar to what causes many people to need reading glasses later in life: there, the problem is not deteriorating eyesight so much as the fact that the muscles that control the eye are not as strong as they once were, making it difficult to stretch the eye's lens enough to focus properly on small/close-up details. With the extensive reading, you might develop "sticky focus," where your eyes have trouble adjusting to focusing on more distant objects, even though this is not actual myopia.

My vision is a combination of severe astigmatism and myopia combined with some sticky focus. My glasses can correct the first two problems, but when I get a little tired, I have a lot of trouble focusing really clearly on more distant road signs or my TV (I sit about ten feet away from that).

[Rye]

I would probably be alive, depending on how it would go. If my mother stayed married to my father, we would probably be in some working class situation in 1806 Lancashire, which would not be that great. Then again, he would've been killed in his accident before I was born, so all things being equal, my mother and stepfather would've met and married like in normal time and I would've gotten a leg up into higher society, maybe got some glasses and a chance at a decent education. I'm pretty healthy and have no serious health problems, never had to receive treatment from a hospital.

On the other hand, both my brother and I were upside down in the womb, meaning that there'd be a higher chance of my mother dying from the caesarian in that time. I could've been a working class orphan in the midst of the industrial revolution, and that would fucking suck. Pit work and poor houses, yuck. I may have committed suicide in such conditions.

[Broomstick]

Are there any primary sources about this that you have access to and can share? I've never heard an optometrist say that, but on the other hand no one's gonna say "hey kids, don't read."

Myopia does not work like Broomie has said; to my knowledge, there is no evidence that extensive reading from an early age causes misshapen corneas.

It's not reading in and of itself, it's the quantity of close-up work vs. distance work the eyes are asked to do. It's not just reading a book, it's also watching TV and doing various forms of school work at arm's length rather than, say, practice at shooting targets because hunting is a necessary skill for survival.

It may do something similar to what causes many people to need reading glasses later in life: there, the problem is not deteriorating eyesight so much as the fact that the muscles that control the eye are not as strong as they once were, making it difficult to stretch the eye's lens enough to focus properly on small/close-up details.

Presbyopia - old people eyes - is not a deterioration of focusing muscles, it involves a stiffening of lens so it becomes less flexible.

With the extensive reading, you might develop "sticky focus," where your eyes have trouble adjusting to focusing on more distant objects, even though this is not actual myopia.

It seems to me that most of the required myopia corrections mentioned so far in this thread aren't that great (there are exceptions) and in the past may have never been detected in normal life anyway.

[Patrick Degan]

Had ear infections, tonsilitis, and a case of chicken pox in childhood, but I think I might have survived to adulthood possibly with the hearing in one ear gone. But assuming I live in New Orleans in the 19th century, I've got a good chance of dying in one of the Yellow Fever epidemics in adulthood.

[erik_t]

I've had no health conditions / diseases / injuries from which I would not have recovered fully in 1809.

[WesFox13]

Dead on same day of birth. I had many problems wrong with me due to my premature birth such as a malfunctioning liver as well as some lung problems and a broken artery and if it was 200 years ago I definitely wouldn't survive.

[Anguirus]

It seems to me that most of the required myopia corrections mentioned so far in this thread aren't that great (there are exceptions) and in the past may have never been detected in normal life anyway.

I would think of myself as an exception, just for the record. Without adequate vision correction my quality of life and overall usefulness would be affected. I could walk around ok, but I'd be useless at shooting, reading signs, identifying other people farther than a few meters away, and at this point I would have to practically stick my nose in a book in order to read it well.

I've met people with worse vision than myself who are fine with correction, but I've also met people with significantly better vision who also wear glasses or contacts 24/7.

[starslayer]

It's not reading in and of itself, it's the quantity of close-up work vs. distance work the eyes are asked to do. It's not just reading a book, it's also watching TV and doing various forms of school work at arm's length rather than, say, practice at shooting targets because hunting is a necessary skill for survival.

It amounts to the same damn thing; the important point is "focusing on objects that are close to you." This in and of itself will not cause true myopia (an aggressive curvature of the cornea). It may cause sticky focus, like I said.

Presbyopia - old people eyes - is not a deterioration of focusing muscles, it involves a stiffening of lens so it becomes less flexible.

From what I was able to find, you're mostly right; it seems the research points to that, with some contribution from the deterioration of the ciliary muscles.

[The Yosemite Bear]

True, we didn't have the stuff around that caused my dad's health problems, and many of my health problems 200 years ago....

[Alerik the Fortunate]

Almost certainly still alive and reasonably healthy, though with some probably slightly crooked and uncomfortable wisdom teeth, but otherwise fine. If I managed to get some education I could probably afford a lifestyle that would reduce risks somewhat. I would be a widower by 26, though, since my wife definitely would not have survived her first pregnancy. On the other hand, without modern contraception, that probably would not have been her first pregnancy, so we may have had a few little ones before that happened.

[Guardsman Bass]

My birth is kind of tricky - it was pretty difficult for my mother, so they ended up doing a C-Section. It's possible that she might have survived the conventional way after a hard delivery, but not guaranteed; there's a good chance that I'd survive, but she would die in the process (meaning my brother would never be born).

Assuming I only catch the illnesses I actually did, then I would probably live after that initial hump. The only serious illnesses I got as a child was Strep Throat (which came close to being Scarlet Fever, but I might live through that), and a very mild case of Chicken Pox. Other than that, I mostly just got colds, and even those were rare - I was a pretty healthy kid.

I have no idea where I'd live, though. If I ended up where my mother's ancestors lived at that time, that means I'd be raised somewhere in the viscinity of Frankfurt in Germany. If it were my father's ancestors, then somewhere in London (I can't remember where exactly it was that my granddad said the Iddisons usually lived there). Either way, I might suffer some additional mortality risk due to the fact that I'd be a young man of prime soldiering age right around the time when Napoleon started heading east.

Assuming I get past those humps, I probably have about as good a chance as any working-class man of that era. There's no history in my family of any sickness like heart disease, severe allergies, etc. My grandfather died of lung cancer, but that was only after working for decades breathing in that insulation stuff they used to use (can't remember the name).

[Akkleptos]

Death by childhood asthma, likely. I never needed oxygen or anything as extreme as that, but Salbutamol came to my rescue quite more often than just a couple of times. I'm not sure if that would have killed me, though, but surely it would have made up for a very unpleasant childhood.

But at 12, I would have been a goner for sure, due to my appendix.


Which makes me wonder -and it was probably the whole point with the OP- How many of us, as a sample of very different parts of the world, would have survived our childhood in the 19th century?

And there's a very Darwinian side to it, I'm afraid. Is our very survival as individuals negating natural selection? SHould we, and people who had the same illnesses as children, have died for the sake of mankinds evolutionary progress?

If by some catastrophe we were to be denied modern medicine and technology, wouldn't we and/or our offspring be... selected for extinction?

--Oh, and on a side note: I wasn't dead... I was out partying (old Mexican saying) in case some of you were wondering---
I finally moved to your house (I mean my house, but, you know, "mi casa es tu casa", as we say here) and I just got the internet service again. I could have read or posted from a variety of places, but IMHO you just don't get the same experience if you don't do it from the comfort of yer own home.

Hello to everybody, again! It's nice to be back!

(BTW, I finally updated my sig counter)

[Medic]

Alive, cramped teeth and hopefully sporting a monocle, because I can. (and need; my shortsightedness kicked-off at 14) Owing to the habits of youngsters back then, my (bigger) twin brother would probably be my biggest health concern.

[Guardsman Bass]

I finally moved to your house

Es posible que no comprendo, pero hoy estas viviendo en los Estados Unidos?

Sorry, that's probably a butchery, but I figured I'd see if three years of Spanish in the US actually came out worth a damn.

[Akkleptos]

Es posible que no comprendo, pero hoy estas viviendo en los Estados Unidos?


Sorry, that's probably a butchery, but I figured I'd see if three years of Spanish in the US actually came out worth a damn.

It's actually quite right
You just missed the subjunctive comprenda, as "understand", in that context, refers to an action depending on a still unknown outcome. But don't worry, English speakers never get it right, since it is so seldom used in English, and so prevalent in everyday Spanish.


And, no. I still live in Mexico, now in the middle of grenade narcoterrorism (Ah! I missed this city so much! ... Actually, a couple of weeks ago the state's undersecretary of public security got shot to death with two escorts and an innocent bystander not three blocks away from where I work... while I was working there)

[Sea Skimmer]

I could have survived the lacerated spleen I had inflicted a few years back 200 years ago, had I been able to quickly move to position in which I could lay relatively still and have people bring me food and water. Modern technology wasn’t really necessary to save me from that lift threatening injury.

[Zor]

Probably Dead 21 years ago due to complications in birthing (fairly minor, i came out feet first).

Zor

[The Yosemite Bear]

Probably Dead 21 years ago due to complications in birthing (fairly minor, i came out feet first).

Zor

erm breech births are pretty well known even before then. Most of what you wouold have to worry about is aclub foot.

[Count Chocula]

My grandfather died of lung cancer, but that was only after working for decades breathing in that insulation stuff they used to use (can't remember the name).

That would be asbestos. The fibers, over time, infiltrated the lungs of workers who laid out the 3M Pink Panther rolls of insulation without masks and choked off the lungs' ability to transfer oxygen to the bloodstream. Not a pleasant death by any stretch, but also something your grandfather would not have faced 200 years ago. You'd live to be a one-eyed mercenary colonel (one-eyed from a grapeshot wound which you survived, natch)!

[Akkleptos]

Probably Dead 21 years ago due to complications in birthing (fairly minor, i came out feet first).

Zor

erm breech births are pretty well known even before then. Most of what you wouold have to worry about is aclub foot.

Come on! When Zor was born, Pacman was common place... His death would have been a sure thing!

That would be asbestos. The fibers, over time, infiltrated the lungs of workers who laid out the 3M Pink Panther rolls of insulation without masks and choked off the lungs' ability to transfer oxygen to the bloodstream. Not a pleasant death by any stretch, but also something your grandfather would not have faced 200 years ago.

Fiber glass I think it's what it gets called nowadays. In any case, nasty stuff, but surely it's presence two hundred years ago would be doubtful.

[Ford Prefect]

Dead at a very young age. I've only really had one serious medical complication, and that was a serious case of pneumonia so far back I can't even vaguely recall it.

EDIT: haha, oh wow. I didn't realise this thread was six pages long.