Senate votes to raise CAFE to 35 mpg by 2020

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Senate votes to raise CAFE to 35 mpg by 2020

Post by Ma Deuce »

Detroit Free Press wrote:Senate OKs raising fuel economy standards
Increase to 35 m.p.g. is first since '75

June 22, 2007


BY JUSTIN HYDE
FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Senate approved an energy bill late Thursday that includes the first increase in total fuel economy standards since 1975, as backers of a 35-mile-per-gallon standard by 2020 won over enough senators to overwhelm the opposition of Michigan's two senators and Detroit's automakers.

The bipartisan deal comes as a rebuke to Detroit's automakers and Toyota Motor Co., which had lobbied furiously for a lower standard after calling the 35-m.p.g. target unachievable.

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It puts added pressure on automakers to improve fuel economy on trucks.

Shortly before midnight, senators voted 65-27 to pass the full energy bill, including the fuel-economy provisions which were added earlier Thursday without debate.

The auto industry and its allies, including the UAW, now turn their attention next to the U.S. House, where the battle over fuel efficiency standards could restart as soon as next month.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and the other senators said their proposal would help the industry and pledged to back some programs giving the industry aid for advanced technology. But the backers also said the industry has fought against fuel economy increases for too long.

"For 23 years, Detroit has said no, no, no," Feinstein said on the Senate floor. "The time has come to say yes, yes, yes."

Michigan Democratic Sens. Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow, who failed to halt the larger energy bill containing the tougher standards in a procedural vote, said they would continue to fight the proposal.

"We need a plan that stretches the industry, not breaks it, and the current bill misses the mark. We are going to continue working with our colleagues in the House to secure a result that is good for the environment without unfairly punishing the American worker," Stabenow said.

If the bill does become law, "the end result will be lesser choice, and people will not be able to buy the vehicles they want," Levin said. "If this stands in the House, I think this will damage the industry and damage consumer choice."

What concerns automakers most about the Senate bill is the increased standards for trucks. While the bill requires federal regulators to set separate standards for cars and trucks based on their size and other attributes, it also forces them to ensure the industry hits the 35-m.p.g. target.

Automakers say that means their cars would have to average about 40 m.p.g. by 2020, and trucks would have to achieve about 30 m.p.g., but that the proposal doesn't spell out how regulators would force individual companies to meet industry-wide goals.

In 2006, new cars averaged 29.8 m.p.g., while trucks averaged 22.2 m.p.g., and industry officials say meeting the truck targets could force them to stop selling larger pickups and SUVs. That could be especially challenging for Chrysler Corp., which relies on trucks for 72% of its sales.

Although the fuel economy increase still faces several hurdles to becoming law, the vote reflects the momentum that tougher efficiency rules have on Capitol Hill, thanks to higher gasoline prices, concerns about global warming and growing worry about U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil. Levin said Detroit automakers "don't have many friends" on Capitol Hill, and that the industry posed a "juicy target" for environmental concerns.

Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., said he would try to insert a similar fuel economy increase into any energy legislation that the House tries to pass this summer.

The pact from the 35-m.p.g. coalition strikes a requirement in the bill that the industry increase fuel economy by 4% annually after 2020, leaving the final word on future increases to federal regulators.

In a change from a previous compromise proposal, the new plan also would require federal officials to set requirements for automakers to build certain numbers of flex-fuel and other alternative-energy vehicles. Nissan Motor Co. had been lobbying hard to keep flex-fuel vehicle requirements out of the energy bill.

The Levin alternative had offered to set standards of 36 m.p.g. for cars by 2022 and 30 m.p.g. for trucks by 2025, or about 30 m.p.g. overall by 2020. Levin and Stabenow proposed some changes in their plan Wednesday, but were not willing to match the 35-m.p.g. target.

"There are no two senators from any other state that I have seen fight harder for their industries than Sen. Stabenow and Sen. Levin," Feinstein said. "Even so, we couldn't come to an accommodation."

Automakers now must meet standards of 27.5 m.p.g. for cars and 22.2 m.p.g. for trucks; the car standards are the same ones that Congress passed in 1975, while the truck standards have been raised slightly in recent years.

President George W. Bush criticized the Senate plan Thursday, saying it was less than the goal of 35 m.p.g. by 2017 that he proposed in his State of the Union address in January. Environmental groups had said the Bush goal was misleading because it was pitched as a target for federal regulators who set the final standards, not a legal requirement for the industry.

Bush said his plan would reduce gasoline consumption by 20% by 2017, but the Senate plan would cut gasoline usage by half that amount.

"We can do much better than that. We really can," Bush said in a speech at an Alabama nuclear plant. "We've got to be optimistic about what America can do when we put our mind to doing something."
Interesting that even Toyota is balking at this; of course they sell far more gas-guzzling SUVs and trucks in North America than all the other foreign automakers combined, and not even their smallest non-hybrid cars in North America get 35 MPG average, especially under the more stringent '08 EPA testing standards. Even they would have to bump their CAFE rating by about 50% to achieve this.

On the other hand, while this might seem like a good move on the surface, this bill could be a totally meaningless gesture: It also requires automakers to make half their new vehicles E85-compatible within the same timeframe (something that is trivially easy to do). If the CAFE E85 credit system is still in effect (and as far as I know this bill hasn't reversed that; we'll see what happens when it comes up for renewal next year), it would mean that automakers would have no problem meeting the 35-mpg standard without lowering actual consumption at all, since under the E85 credit system, a 15-mpg vehicle that can run on E85 is counted as 40 MPG, even though on average it will only burn E85 1% of the time.

What a pathetic joke. In fact, why not dump the CAFE system altogether and replace it with fuel taxes. As far as I'm aware, no European countries legislate fuel economy standards for motor vehicles, yet high fuel taxes encourage people to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles. The only real step forward I see on this bill is holding cars and light trucks to the same standards.
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Post by Eulogy »

In-fucking-deed. 35 mpg in ~13 years is too little too late. The fuel economy is going to need to increase many times that amount to keep up with decreasing oil, and it needs to be implemented sooner.

Not going to happen, is it?
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Post by Turin »

[plink!]

That was the sound of a very tiny tiny drop in a very very big bucket. Good on the Congress for at least trying to do something, but this is really nothing.[/i]
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Don't other countries already require better fuel efficiency standards? :roll:
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

It's worse than nothing, because it gives Congress the catchall "well we did something!!1!11" excuse of not doing a damn thing more while the world goes right to Hell.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Eliminating the CAFE (credit system), making flex-fuel mandatory for all vehicles by 2017, and requiring an average fuel efficiency of 50 miles per gallon from each manufacturer by 2017 is the only thing that might have some positive effect. Also announce that the use of trucks for the movement of cargo over distances greater than twenty miles will be illegal by 2017, except for raw materials.

Not like even that would help much, but at least they'd clearly be trying in that case. Here? Nothing substantiative.

As for fuel taxes, $3.00 a gallon flat tax would be good starting immediately, rising to $10.00 a gallon by 2014 at the rate of one dollar a year.

If you want to strangle the hold of the internal combustion engine on the American people, you're going to have to run roughshod over everything they hold dear.

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Re: Senate votes to raise CAFE to 35 mpg by 2020

Post by aerius »

Ma Deuce wrote:On the other hand, while this might seem like a good move on the surface, this bill could be a totally meaningless gesture: It also requires automakers to make half their new vehicles E85-compatible within the same timeframe (something that is trivially easy to do). If the CAFE E85 credit system is still in effect (and as far as I know this bill hasn't reversed that; we'll see what happens when it comes up for renewal next year), it would mean that automakers would have no problem meeting the 35-mpg standard without lowering actual consumption at all, since under the E85 credit system, a 15-mpg vehicle that can run on E85 is counted as 40 MPG, even though on average it will only burn E85 1% of the time.
I expect that loophole to stay there, and I also expect new loopholes to find their way into the bill. I wouldn't be surprised if they reclassed vehicle weights or something like that further down the line so that only compact cars are affected. Maybe they'll classify hybrids as full EV's and then use that to give massive transfer credits to the rest of the lineup, who knows?

Not that it'll matter in the long run, with the way oil & gasoline prices are rising, chances are the average American won't be able to afford more than a single car trip a week by the time 2020 comes around.
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Post by white_rabbit »

How does this compare to the rest of the world, the fuel efficiency I mean ?
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Post by Ma Deuce »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Don't other countries already require better fuel efficiency standards? :roll:
Although Europe and Japan don't actually have fuel efficiency standards at all, they achieve better mileage (close to 40 mpg average) for one simple reason: heavily taxed fuel, which forces people to buy smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles. Widespread use of diesel engines in their cars also helps, something that will be slow to catch on here due to more stringent standards on NOx an PM emissions (particularly in places like California), and due to negative public perceptions about diesel cars brought on by some of the craptacular models sold here during the '80s.
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Post by Stormbringer »

Ma Deuce wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Don't other countries already require better fuel efficiency standards? :roll:
Although Europe and Japan don't actually have fuel efficiency standards at all, they achieve better mileage (close to 40 mpg average) for one simple reason: heavily taxed fuel, which forces people to buy smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles. Widespread use of diesel engines in their cars also helps, something that will be slow to catch on here due to more stringent standards on NOx an PM emissions (particularly in places like California), and due to negative public perceptions about diesel cars brought on by some of the craptacular models sold here during the '80s.
And of course there's simply the problem that North America, the US and Canada mostly, drives so much more than any other group. Part of the big problem that we have is that the suburban lifestyle forces people to drive for basic requirements, whether they wish to or not. So that plays into overall fuel consumption too, and probably more than mere efficiency.
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Post by SirNitram »

Frankly, the oil companies threats to not build any new refineries will do more to prepare for the crash than this.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Stormbringer wrote:
Ma Deuce wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Don't other countries already require better fuel efficiency standards? :roll:
Although Europe and Japan don't actually have fuel efficiency standards at all, they achieve better mileage (close to 40 mpg average) for one simple reason: heavily taxed fuel, which forces people to buy smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles. Widespread use of diesel engines in their cars also helps, something that will be slow to catch on here due to more stringent standards on NOx an PM emissions (particularly in places like California), and due to negative public perceptions about diesel cars brought on by some of the craptacular models sold here during the '80s.
And of course there's simply the problem that North America, the US and Canada mostly, drives so much more than any other group. Part of the big problem that we have is that the suburban lifestyle forces people to drive for basic requirements, whether they wish to or not. So that plays into overall fuel consumption too, and probably more than mere efficiency.
Higher gas taxes would solve that automatically, by making the sprawling suburbs less attractive to homebuyers.
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Post by Turin »

Darth Wong wrote:Higher gas taxes would solve that automatically, by making the sprawling suburbs less attractive to homebuyers.
The problem with this, of course, is that American lawmakers are cowards who would be fearing for their re-election if they actually made gas prices go up even more. I can see the campaign ads now. It needs to be done, but it won't until it's too late and disaster hits.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Useless gesture to alleviate concerns from the auto and energy industry. Pathetically small increase; will be forced to become much bigger, much earlier by natural factors.

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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Darth Wong wrote: Higher gas taxes would solve that automatically, by making the sprawling suburbs less attractive to homebuyers.
And what about all the people, many of them not altogether very well off, who already live in those areas?

Meanwhile even the upper middle class could already easily pay its way out of any likely fuel tax. What should happen is the gas guzzler tax, which allows the rich to buy horrendously inefficient cars should be abolished and those cars banned. At the same time some fairly complex laws would need to be enacted to squeeze SUVs out of existence, while still allowing the production of necessary and practical crew cab pickups and vans. Combine with increased fuel economy standards, and the abolishment f any kind of ‘average’ and it should be possible to halt increased in gas consumption and begin pushing it back down.

I’m frankly very tired of these threads of people trying to outdo each other with radical solutions to big bad peak oil. People seem to forget that even when peak oil does occur, which will not be for some time yet, especially in the timescales that matter for car manufacturing, the world will still have an awful lot of oil. It is not necessary to simply stop using oil as quickly as possible and any plan based around that is just not going to work. It is not reasonable to take a 25 year approach to this, but then the problem as always is sticking to the plan.

Something as unpopular and economically damaging as a huge increase in fuel taxes, before alternatives are even offered to consumers, is certainly a good way to ensure that no plan is followed and the situation only gets worse. Even if it could be passed through the legislature once, come the next round of elections every candidate would make the laws repeal the center of his platform.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

The world having oil or not is not the issue. It's how fast you get it out of the ground. We will always have oil.

The US, as is the rest of the world, sits in something of a bind. If you try and suggest people cutback on guzzling this stuff, they will protest and down goes your gov't (I'm sure even Bush could lose more popularity). If you force them, then you better have subsidies and incentives, ironically, the US has more than over here, where the likes of hybrids are given nice big rebates compared to the meagre financial aid here. There are no real alternatives that don't already rely on fossil fuels down the line anyway. The smug people with EVs forget that they take that power from a gas fired turbine power plant, or even better, coal.

So really, that leaves you hurtling along as normal making the fall that much harder. If you try and do something now, you'll hurt the economy. If you don't do something now, you'll hurt the economy. Better feign ignorance and let someone else deal with this while you arrange those last payments for a self-sufficient villa and ranch in South America away from any other humans.
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Post by Sephirius »

While this is progress, I hate that bandwagon bitch Feinstein.
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Post by Sephirius »

Sephirius wrote:While this is progress, I hate that bandwagon bitch Feinstein.
Ghetto edit, hit enter before I meant to: It seems she's always the spokesperson for these sort of bills, kind of jumping in front going LOOK AT MEEEEE
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Re: Senate votes to raise CAFE to 35 mpg by 2020

Post by CmdrWilkens »

Ma Deuce wrote:Interesting that even Toyota is balking at this; of course they sell far more gas-guzzling SUVs and trucks in North America than all the other foreign automakers combined, and not even their smallest non-hybrid cars in North America get 35 MPG average, especially under the more stringent '08 EPA testing standards. Even they would have to bump their CAFE rating by about 50% to achieve this.
Small note mostly because I'm a snob about my car but the Yaris in both Manual (36mpg) and Auto (35mpg) do get to that level in highway driving under the new system.
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Post by Broomstick »

The Yaris is that low?

My 2002 Echo (manual transmission) routinely averages 40 mpg local driving and 43 mpg on the freeway.

Then again, I went for the stripped-down Echo with little fru-fru, which no doubts helps with efficiency.

For that matter, my 1999 Ford Ranger pickup gets 23-24 mpg city and about 26 mpg highway.

In other words, my aging vehicles already meet the higher standard everyone is balking at, and did it years ago. Of course, my vehicles are not sexy and the manufacturer probably didn't have as high a profit margin on them as on the luxury sedans and SUV's.
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Post by Broomstick »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:requiring an average fuel efficiency of 50 miles per gallon from each manufacturer by 2017 is the only thing that might have some positive effect.
My dear, I fear that is a little draconian. I'm not sure this is possible, unless the majority of drivers switch to motorcycles. No doubt that would make Harley-Davidson very happy, and after an initial period of carnage I would expect an increase of common sense and courtesy in daily driving.

On the up side, it would help alleviate the organ donor shortage...
Also announce that the use of trucks for the movement of cargo over distances greater than twenty miles will be illegal by 2017, except for raw materials.
I thought you wanted to use rail to transport bulky stuff like raw materials long distance...
As for fuel taxes, $3.00 a gallon flat tax would be good starting immediately, rising to $10.00 a gallon by 2014 at the rate of one dollar a year.
And just what will all that increased revenue pay for?
If you want to strangle the hold of the internal combustion engine on the American people, you're going to have to run roughshod over everything they hold dear.
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Post by The Spartan »

Broomstick wrote:The Yaris is that low?

My 2002 Echo (manual transmission) routinely averages 40 mpg local driving and 43 mpg on the freeway.
Under the new rating system, yes. Under the old rating system it was rated more like 60 mpg, as I recall, compared to your Echo's 40-43.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Broomstick wrote: My dear, I fear that is a little draconian. I'm not sure this is possible, unless the majority of drivers switch to motorcycles. No doubt that would make Harley-Davidson very happy, and after an initial period of carnage I would expect an increase of common sense and courtesy in daily driving.

Anything less draconian, I fear, would not be effective.

I thought you wanted to use rail to transport bulky stuff like raw materials long distance...
Raw materials are already shipped long distance by rail because it's obvious even to modern companies that is cheap. The problem is that there's some mines and regions of agriculture where it would be simply impractical to build railroad tracks to service those facilities in the space of ten years, so there has to be an exception to allow trucks to continue to service those until railroad tracks can be constructed. That use for trucks could be banned by, say, 2020, also.
And just what will all that increased revenue pay for?
A programme to provide zero-interest loans to low income people so they can replace their old cars with modern high-efficiency cars, so that by 2020 we can eliminate all non-Commercial vehicles from the roads that make less than 35mpg.
The IC engine is not the evil - it's the total reliance on one source of fuel that is inherently limited, even if it was temporarialy abundant.
We're going to be paying for it either way.
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Post by aerius »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Broomstick wrote:And just what will all that increased revenue pay for?
A programme to provide zero-interest loans to low income people so they can replace their old cars with modern high-efficiency cars, so that by 2020 we can eliminate all non-Commercial vehicles from the roads that make less than 35mpg.
Even if this tax managed to drop gasoline consumption in half, which I very much doubt will happen, you're still looking at something like $650 million in revenues every day, chances are it'll be a lot closer to a billion bucks a day, and that's in the first year with the $3 tax. That kind of income stream can do a lot more than simply paying for car loans, you could seize millions of gas guzzlers every year, crush them, and replace them with brand new fuel efficient cars and have money left over for nuke plants and infrastructure upgrades.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Higher gas taxes would solve that automatically, by making the sprawling suburbs less attractive to homebuyers.
And what about all the people, many of them not altogether very well off, who already live in those areas?
If they can afford the pickup trucks and SUVs which seem to be everywhere in those suburbs, I think they can afford gas tax. Either that or they'll sell the dinomobiles.
I’m frankly very tired of these threads of people trying to outdo each other with radical solutions to big bad peak oil. People seem to forget that even when peak oil does occur, which will not be for some time yet, especially in the timescales that matter for car manufacturing, the world will still have an awful lot of oil.
How does this refute the notion that something should be done to slow down the continuous increase in gas consumption that we're seeing in the statistics? We're not even talking about cutting back consumption yet; we're talking about trying to slow down a skyrocketing trend of consumption increases. Does it not make sense that, no matter where you stand on the proximity and severity of peak oil, it's crazy for us to be consuming like there's no tomorrow?
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2007-06-27 09:04pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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