Pablo Sanchez wrote:Well, Star Trek has a lot more of those super-duper copout things than any other Sci-Fi universe (because their writers suck). ST has the Q, Organians, and a shetload of other super-beings, plus time traveling 29th Century Feds and other such garbage.
And yet some still say that Star Trek is the most realistic science fiction show ever. For me Q's neat little tricks are no more real than the Force, for example.
I think that we'll see in "Nemesis" if the introduction of Voyager super technology in "Endgame" had any impact on Federation. Somehow I get the feeling that they'll just ignore it completely.
Of Course Torps like ever other kind of missile is suseptable to two problems
One, It can be blocked
Two, It can be shot down
And even if they were one shot kill weapons
(unlikey given if they where why the heck do the never use them on anything but borg ships)
Even so ST does not have Shields that can stop matter, SW does, Even if they don't trigger the Energy shields your still running into the matter shields which so far have never been pentrated by anything(It even blocks subspace as when full shields go up(normaly matter shields are not running full out because of the inherant danger to any friendly vessels that come close) subspace communcation no longer works, see the long winded debate over Subspace Transporters for full info)
As somone was so kind to point out a squadren of TIE Defenders would be a match for any Federation ship being they can get into places the Feds can't hit and also carry War-heads similar to what the Federation Captial ships already carry
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
I'm simply not impressed by the ability of a transphasic torpedo to destroy a Borg cube in one shot- they're not impressive next to an ISD; so how does one make the leap that the TPT could kill an ISD in one shot? *Most* Borg ships don't have armor of any kind whatsoever- they adapt. If they can't adapt; they die- Species 8472; TPTs. Additionally, it was demonstrated in STFC that their ability to adapt is not infinite- apparently the Borg cube fought a running battle with the Federation forces from the ... Typhon sector is it? All the way to Earth- by the time the Enterprise showed up the Borg cube had sustained severe damage- it would've beaten those last few Federation ships if the Enterprise hadn't shown up fresh for battle- but regardless their firepower was damaging it- and it was the concentration of such firepower- including decidedly 'low-tech' (compared to transphasic torps) photon torps and phaser fire, that destroyed the cube.
Btw, the transphasic torps where only so effective against Borg ships because those don't have real armored hulls.
The torp passed through the shields and structures and exploded inside, thus dealing a relatively great deal of damage.
ISDs feature thickly armored hulls. If the torps can pass thru the shields, they will scratch the armor, and that's it.
And as Mr Bean said:
It's highly doubtful transphasic torps will be able to bypass SW shields.
We saw many instants on the ST shows where shields were bypassed (E-D's death, for example). What was responsible for that?
Shield frequency modulation. The logical conclusion is that transphasic torps somehow match shield frequencies with their targets, and therefor can bypass the shields. Since SW shields don't oscillate at a certain frequency:
problem solved.
Yes I cant seem to recall an instance in any of the movies or books where a weapon seemingly pierced through the shield like it wasnt there...(note by shield I meant shields as in both particle and ray).
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1. These transphasic torpedoes AFAIK aren't used in Nemesis.
2. Prove they can kill an ISD's armour and shields, not just Borg weird shields and weak hulls.
3. Speed and industrial advantages still win it.
"You know, I was God once."
"Yes, I saw. You were doing well, until everyone died."
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Well, Trekkies will just ignore the shielding part, as cleared up by Cpt_Frank, and they'll just say ISDs have weak hulls. After, the Trekkie thinks if a TPT can destroy a Borg Cube, it can destroy anything.
Exactly. If we were to apply the same logic that the trekkies use I could simply say...insecticide kills ants...therefore it will kill bears...just as fast or something like that. (Images of trekkies trying to use RAID on bears comes to mind...) I DO NOT recommend anyone go out and use RAID on a bear.
"Join me and I will complete your training"
"You dont know the power of the Dark Side"
Lord_Vader wrote:Exactly. If we were to apply the same logic that the trekkies use I could simply say...insecticide kills ants...therefore it will kill bears...just as fast or something like that. (Images of trekkies trying to use RAID on bears comes to mind...) I DO NOT recommend anyone go out and use RAID on a bear.
RAID WILL KILL A BEAR!!!! but by the time it dies it will have ripped you to shreds!
PS. it would take the whole can
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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Lord_Vader wrote:LOL well you know what I meant by my analogy.
yes, but I couldn't pass up a good joke
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:1. These transphasic torpedoes AFAIK aren't used in Nemesis.
2. Prove they can kill an ISD's armour and shields, not just Borg weird shields and weak hulls.
3. Speed and industrial advantages still win it.
First I don't think they will be used in Nemesis either....however your stating it as fact. Probably because you read that script floating around out there.
The script also says photon torpedos are the only weapon being used by the E-E, when in fact the teaser clearly shows that they are QTorp.
So maybe we should wait till the movie, before claiming things as fact.
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:Well, Trekkies will just ignore the shielding part, as cleared up by Cpt_Frank, and they'll just say ISDs have weak hulls. After, the Trekkie thinks if a TPT can destroy a Borg Cube, it can destroy anything.
The problem with TPT, is we don't know anything about them...it's a lack of information. However, let's pretend for a second that we know TPT can phase through shields......would it not be fair to say that TPT can phase through imperial shields?
I'm not really interested in the topic at hand, just curious about the logic being used here.
A quick thought though...if you say no......how can you be so sure Ion Cannons will work the same way against ST ships?
We don't know how TPTs bypass shields, and we also know that SW shields don't work in the same way as ST shields. So, you can't just assume that TPTs will bypass SW shields.
BTW, VF5SS, is your sig quote from Evangelion?
Fragment of the Lord of Nightmares, release thy heavenly retribution. Blade of cold, black nothingness: become my power, become my body. Together, let us walk the path of destruction and smash even the souls of the Gods! RAGNA BLADE!
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Secularism—since AD 80
Av: Elika; Prince of Persia
Mr Bean wrote:Even so ST does not have Shields that can stop matter, SW does, Even if they don't trigger the Energy shields your still running into the matter shields which so far have never been pentrated by anything
Ummm, where do you get your info from? ST Shields block matter very well. In an TNG episode (I have no idea the name of it, but I'll look it up later) a prisoner stole a ship from the surface and used a tactic to evade the Enterprise. He increased speed and set a direct course towards the Ent. He bounced off the shields and tried to run away. The ship would definitly be classified as "matter".
Mr Bean wrote:Even so ST does not have Shields that can stop matter, SW does, Even if they don't trigger the Energy shields your still running into the matter shields which so far have never been pentrated by anything
Ummm, where do you get your info from? ST Shields block matter very well. In an TNG episode (I have no idea the name of it, but I'll look it up later) a prisoner stole a ship from the surface and used a tactic to evade the Enterprise. He increased speed and set a direct course towards the Ent. He bounced off the shields and tried to run away. The ship would definitly be classified as "matter".
A better example would be when the Yamato was destroyed and a very large piece of debris hit the shields.
Darth Yoshi wrote:We don't know how TPTs bypass shields, and we also know that SW shields don't work in the same way as ST shields. So, you can't just assume that TPTs will bypass SW shields.
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
A quick thought though...if you say no......how can you be so sure Ion Cannons will work the same way against ST ships?
"Sir, there's a <Insert treknobabble feild here> of the port bow!"
*Lights dim, consoles begin to flash*
"Sir, we're losing power!"
YEah, I think it will work. If its poweful enough, it may even disrupt the warp core o` death...
Ion cannons work by shorting out systems, like if your house gets an electrical surge. If your computer is running when the surge hits, it'll get royally fucked. Of course, Fed ships run on plasma conduits rather electical cables. Which means that when the ion burst overloads the circuits, BOOOM! Console of Death(TM) strikes again!!!
Fragment of the Lord of Nightmares, release thy heavenly retribution. Blade of cold, black nothingness: become my power, become my body. Together, let us walk the path of destruction and smash even the souls of the Gods! RAGNA BLADE!
Lore Monkey | the Pichu-master™
Secularism—since AD 80
Av: Elika; Prince of Persia
ST shields are somewhat frequency dependent. If an attacking ship knows the frequency of a ST shield, they can crack the shield and bypass it as if it never existed. ST shields can also become more effective if a defensive ship knows what frequency their attackers are using during their attacks (ref. BoBW).
SW shields are not frequency dependent. Either the shield is up, in which case it stops all energy/particulate matter (depending on which type of shield it is) that is coming in, or it is down in which case it stops none of it. In either case, it is not a frequency dependent ability. Please note that the frequency dependency of ST shields also means that they usually do not stop all energy or weapons fire that is striking them. This explains how ships in ST can take such significant damage even with their shields up.
It is probable that the TPT operates by somehow determining the shield frequency of whatever ship it was fired against, and then attempting to compensate for that (much like the torpedo from Wing Commander). This tactic would be ineffective against SW ships.
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Darth Yoshi wrote:We don't know how TPTs bypass shields, and we also know that SW shields don't work in the same way as ST shields. So, you can't just assume that TPTs will bypass SW shields.
BTW, VF5SS, is your sig quote from Evangelion?
I think its from the fan comics of a comic called Bob and George... but I'm not sure. Tell me if'm even remotly close...
