Big Steve Mk II rears his head again...

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MKSheppard
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Big Steve Mk II rears his head again...

Post by MKSheppard »

http://www.tennessean.com/opinion/nashv ... D=25478205

http://www.math.vanderbilt.edu/~farley/
The idiot in question's home page...

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Jonathan Farley: Remnants of the Confederacy glorifying a time of tyranny

A friend of mine told me that, whenever he drives by the statue of Civil War general Nathan Forrest on Interstate 65, he always salutes it. With his middle finger.

Nathan Forrest, as you'll recall, is the Confederate ''hero'' who founded the Ku Klux Klan.

Today, 137 years after the last shot was fired in the Civil War, the enemy regroups. Under pressure from students, Vanderbilt University dropped the word ''Confederate'' from the name of its ''Confederate Memorial Hall.'' The United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC), which contributed $50,000 towards the construction of the building, promptly sued Vanderbilt to get their money back.

Just who are the Daughters of the Confederacy? In 1931, Nashville Chapter No. 1 ''voted to see that the last meeting place of the Ku Klux Klan in Nashville … [was] suitably marked.'' In 1944 and 1966, the UDC's minutes record their opposition to integration. More recently, a Murfreesboro woman whose family belongs to the UDC wrote me to say that Martin Luther King's ''only contribution [was] to stir-up more prejudice and being killed.''

Lest we forget, the Confederacy aimed to destroy the United States. Every Confederate soldier, by the mores of his age and ours, deserved not a hallowed resting place at the end of his days but a reservation at the end of the gallows. The UDC honors traitors.

''But the war was not about slavery,'' they whine. ''It was about states' rights.'' But the ''right'' Confederates sought to defend was the right to murder, rape, and torture millions of Africans, with impunity.

Here is how one slave owner exercised his ''rights'': ''Through a period of four months, including the latter stages of pregnancy, delivery, and recent recovery therefrom … he beat [his slave] with clubs, iron chains and other deadly weapons time after time, burnt her, inflicted stripes over and often, with scourges.''

The Confederacy's own vice president, Alexander Stephens, declared that the Confederacy ''rests upon the great truth that the negro is not the equal of the white man, that slavery — the subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition.''

Today's Confederates, who deny that the war was about slavery, are the new holocaust revisionists.

Black Americans and white Europeans object to the statue of a 19th century Hitler standing in public view off an interstate highway. It and the Confederate flags surrounding it represent nothing less than a death threat against scores of millions of people of color. That monument must go. Not only because it's racist and violent but also because it's just plain ugly.

The issue is not black vs. white.

The mostly white Green Party of the United States has issued a statement supporting Vanderbilt's decision. Southerners black and white recoil with disgust when the UDC claims that it alone represents ''Southern heritage.''

Here in Nashville, there are plans to investigate the source of the UDC's funds. If researchers can trace them back to slavery, they will demand that reparations be paid to the true children of the Confederacy — the descendants of the slaves — before one cent is paid by Vanderbilt back to the UDC.

Indeed, the race problems that wrack America to this day are due largely to the fact that the Confederacy was not thoroughly destroyed, its leaders and soldiers executed and their lands given to the landless freed slaves.

The Daughters of the Confederacy say we must remember their dead. And I agree: Let us remember the cruelty inflicted upon helpless women and children by cowards masquerading as civilized men.

The tyranny and evil they visited upon millions must never be forgotten.
Last edited by MKSheppard on 2002-11-26 01:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Time to make heads explode boys!

Post by MKSheppard »

http://www.civilwarhome.com/blacks.htm

Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest had slaves and freemen serving in
units under his command. After the war, Forrest said of the black
men who served under him, "These boys stayed with me.. - and
better Confederates did not live."

.....

Professor Ed Smith, director of American Studies at
American University, says Stonewall Jackson had 3,000 fully
equipped black troops scattered throughout his corps at
Antietam - the war's bloodiest battle.

....

http://www.civilwarhome.com/proposal.htm
A Proposal For Negro Enlistments In The Confederate Army
(background on the thing that might have saved the Confederacy)
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Post by Rhadamanthus »

I think you got confused MK....you just posted two articles, one of which said that many of the slaves who fought with the Confederacy were doing so because they hoped their masters would reward them, and the other a proposal that was soundly rejected by the Confederate government.

If that was some feeble attempt to show that slaves wanted to stay slaves in the Confederacy...or that slavery wasn't a real issue of the War, you failed miserably.
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Post by pecker »

I see no problem with having Confederate memorials. Maybe not one to the founder of the KKK, but still. I'm still waiting for someone to ask the name of Forrest Gump to be changed, completely missing the point :p

But I'm the white devil, what do I know :roll:
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Post by Darth Wong »

If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
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Post by pecker »

Darth Wong wrote:If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
If they want to build a statue of the Desert Fox, more power to'em. There's a difference between war heroes and war criminals.
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Post by C.S.Strowbridge »

pecker wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
If they want to build a statue of the Desert Fox, more power to'em. There's a difference between war heroes and war criminals.
Building memorials to losers is always stupid.
Nazi Germany lost, get over it.
The Confederacy lost, get over it.

BTW, Rommel wasn't that great of a commander. His charge across North Africa coincides with German intelligence gathering from piss-poor American counter-intelligence. Once that hole was plugged Rommel lost all he had gained.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

C.S.Strowbridge wrote:
pecker wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
If they want to build a statue of the Desert Fox, more power to'em. There's a difference between war heroes and war criminals.
Building memorials to losers is always stupid.
Nazi Germany lost, get over it.
The Confederacy lost, get over it.

BTW, Rommel wasn't that great of a commander. His charge across North Africa coincides with German intelligence gathering from piss-poor American counter-intelligence. Once that hole was plugged Rommel lost all he had gained.
His greatest success where against the British, whoes asses he was kicking for a year before America was even in the war. :roll:

And the Germans named a destroyer after him. American built one to.
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Post by C.S.Strowbridge »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
C.S.Strowbridge wrote: BTW, Rommel wasn't that great of a commander. His charge across North Africa coincides with German intelligence gathering from piss-poor American counter-intelligence. Once that hole was plugged Rommel lost all he had gained.
His greatest success where against the British, whoes asses he was kicking for a year before America was even in the war. :roll:
Right, and America had an embassy in Egypt and Germany had a spy in America's ebmassy in Egypt. So when America demanded Britain keep them informed on the war, Britain was in fact, keeping Germany informed on the war.

On that was closed, Rommel lost almost every battle. Watched it in, 'The Science of Secrecy.'
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Post by MKSheppard »

Darth Wong wrote:If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
Why not? The 1940 blitz was a masterpiece.
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Post by Exonerate »

MKSheppard wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
Why not? The 1940 blitz was a masterpiece.
Was pretty stupid to betray an ally and fight a two fronted war... The French were just completely caught off guard; they expected a long trench war, like WW1.

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Post by MKSheppard »

Exonerate wrote: Was pretty stupid to betray an ally and fight a two fronted war... The French were just completely caught off guard; they expected a long trench war, like WW1.
Meh, Manstein was the mastermind behind that plan, and he ended up
working for the West German Government in the 50s as a FIELD MARSHAL,
to reconstitute the German Armed Forces..
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Post by C.S.Strowbridge »

Exonerate wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
Why not? The 1940 blitz was a masterpiece.
Was pretty stupid to betray an ally and fight a two fronted war... The French were just completely caught off guard; they expected a long trench war, like WW1.
They expected Belgium et al. to last a week. That's all they needed to mobilize their troops. They didn't get it.
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Post by kheegster »

pecker wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
If they want to build a statue of the Desert Fox, more power to'em. There's a difference between war heroes and war criminals.
Forrest is more equivalent to Himmler than to Rommel.

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Post by Exonerate »

Well... As I understand it, Rommel was a lot tamer than most of the Nazis... There were even accounts where he treated his prisoners humanely...

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Post by Darth Wong »

pecker wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If you have no problem with commemorations to the Confederacy, perhaps you would also appreciate the Germans constructing monuments glorifying their Nazi heritage?
If they want to build a statue of the Desert Fox, more power to'em. There's a difference between war heroes and war criminals.
That's not what I'm talking about and you know it. A statue of General Lee is one thing, but glorifying the confederate movement itself is quite another. They can build a statue of the Desert Fox, but if they start flying the swastika over their capital buildings, people would be pretty upset.
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Post by C.S.Strowbridge »

Exonerate wrote:Well... As I understand it, Rommel was a lot tamer than most of the Nazis... There were even accounts where he treated his prisoners humanely...
AFAIK, Rommel had some pretty strong animosity towards Hitler. But I don't know if tat was due to Hitler's incompetency as a war time leader or his 'social programs.'
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Post by kheegster »

Hitler certainly had no great love of Rommel...he dumped him into the boondocks in France...fortunately all he had to work with were rear echelon rejects, or else Overlord might have ran into some trouble. But was Rommel even a member of the party?

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Post by Raptor 597 »

C.S.Strowbridge wrote:
Exonerate wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: Why not? The 1940 blitz was a masterpiece.
Was pretty stupid to betray an ally and fight a two fronted war... The French were just completely caught off guard; they expected a long trench war, like WW1.
They expected Belgium et al. to last a week. That's all they needed to mobilize their troops. They didn't get it.
And? Point being what? Who cares if they weren't mobilizied? The whole Blitzberg strategy goal was too keep the enemy in retreat, off balance, and not be able too allow the enemy too bear full force upon them. France wasn't ready, France lost. Plain and simple. Given, they did hold well for wasting a defense line.
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Post by C.S.Strowbridge »

Captain Lennox wrote:
C.S.Strowbridge wrote:
Exonerate wrote: Why not? The 1940 blitz was a masterpiece.
Was pretty stupid to betray an ally and fight a two fronted war... The French were just completely caught off guard; they expected a long trench war, like WW1.
They expected Belgium et al. to last a week. That's all they needed to mobilize their troops. They didn't get it.
And? Point being what? Who cares if they weren't mobilizied? The whole Blitzberg strategy goal was too keep the enemy in retreat, off balance, and not be able too allow the enemy too bear full force upon them. France wasn't ready, France lost. Plain and simple. Given, they did hold well for wasting a defense line.[/quote]

Right, France lost but that's not entirely their fault. They fault well and could have stopped the German advance if the low countries didn't take less than 72 hours to fall.

There's nothing wrong with their strategy, the biggest flaw was their allies incompetence.
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Post by MKSheppard »

C.S.Strowbridge wrote: There's nothing wrong with their strategy, the biggest flaw was their allies incompetence.
Yeah right, and the entire fucking French High Command isn't to blame
for the catastrophe that followed as Guderian raced for the Channel,
and swept aside weak kneed french counterattacks on his way?
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Post by MKSheppard »

kheegan wrote: Forrest is more equivalent to Himmler than to Rommel.
How so? He disbanded the KKK at the US government's request,
when it was in it's FIRST incarnation against carpetbaggers.

The second and third incarnations are another matter and wholly
unconnected with N.B. Forrest's KKK.

EDIT: Except for the name and uniforms, of course.
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