ST Shield Technology

[Xero Cool Down]

This may have already been discussed, but I noticed after watching Nemesis again (and actually enjoying it more for not looking at it so critically) that we get alot of up close looks at the Enterprise bridge display of the ship's shield status. I noticed that the Enterprise is no longer using a bubble shield but one that seems to run a nearly uniform length from the ship's hull. Perhaps this represents an advancment in shield technology from the dominion war?

[Batman]

Err...hull-hugging shields go back all the way to the TOS movie era if not further. AND DS9 had ships use hull-huggers so this isn't exactly a recent development.

[Uraniun235]

TNG and First Contact, on the other hand, showed bubble-shields.

[Sarevok]

In my opinion it would make sense for Federation military starship shield generators to have both hull conforming and bubble modes. Bubble configuration could keep small craft away from blind spots at point blank range. Hull conforming configuration means smaller shield surface area which iirc according to trek rules mean a stronger shield. The Ent's hull conforming shields against the slow Scimitar kind of backs this up. But I dont know much about episodes.,

[Vicious]

We never see hull-hugging shields on Federation craft in TNG, though. Perhaps in the TNG era they were experimenting with forgoing hullhugging shields and they realized by DS9 that they're damn useful and that's why we see them by then. That doesn't explain FC though.

When did construction of the Sovreign-class begin? If it's early enough, hull hugging shields might have been left out of the design and they were built anyway because of the more powerful bubble shields. By the time of Nemesis, we see the refitted Sovreign with new hull-hugging shields. Maybe that ties in with some of the odd refit changes on the Nemesis Sovy?

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I personally like one theory: they use both types of shields. Bubble shields are on the whole weaker than hull-huggers due to the fact that they have more area to fit onto, but energy which might 'bleed through' the shields will be dispersed in space rather than hit the hull directly.

[Vicious]

I personally like one theory: they use both types of shields. Bubble shields are on the whole weaker than hull-huggers due to the fact that they have more area to fit onto, but energy which might 'bleed through' the shields will be dispersed in space rather than hit the hull directly.

The problem is we never see hull-hugging shields on Fed ships in TNG, Generations or FC. Where'd they go? We see 'em in TOS, DS9 and Nemesis. (Yes, I ignored VOY and Insurrection. Why? Because I'd like to keep my sanity.)

Hence my theory that the TNG/Generations-era was Starfleet looking into dropping hull-hugging shields, and by the end of it they reinstated them, which might explain their presence in DS9. My only quandry is with the Sovreign. If she was started early enough, that might explain why she doesn't have hull-hugging shields in FC and the refit Sovreign in Nemesis does.

[Lancer]

It could be as simple as the commander's preference or if they're expecting trouble.

[Batman]

It could be as simple as the commander's preference or if they're expecting trouble.

That would be stupid to the extreme but then this is Trek.
It may, though, be a technological matter.
Bubble shields are geometrically simple. Hull huggers aren't. The generators needed for hull hugging shields may simply be more energy intensive/complicated/expensive/whatever. During TOS and a lot of DS9, the Feds were at war, or pretty close to it (the Fed's relations with the Klingons and Romulans were rather tense during TOS). During TNG, Generations, Insurrection, and FC, they weren't. Nemesis may simply be the consequence of lessons learned from the Dominion War.

[Construct]

Sorry for digressing a bit but just out of curiosity, does anyone know how to go about building an actual shield? Is this all fiction or is there any evidence today we can make shields like these seen in ST and many video games?

[Batman]

Sorry for digressing a bit but just out of curiosity, does anyone know how to go about building an actual shield? Is this all fiction or is there any evidence today we can make shields like these seen in ST and many video games?

How does a solid 'No way in hell' grab you?
And welcome to the board.
A piece of advice-posting in a thread that's been dead for a week, especially posting something pointless like that, is frowned upon here.

[Chmee]

As another aside, do we have any way of knowing whether the 'bubble' vs. 'hugger' issue is simply an issue of a change in DISPLAY design, while the shields themselves actually function identically in both cases?

In TNG we saw the shields' shape when a weapon hit them ... have we ever seen a cinematic display of hull-hugging shields repelling a shot?

[Batman]

As another aside, do we have any way of knowing whether the 'bubble' vs. 'hugger' issue is simply an issue of a change in DISPLAY design, while the shields themselves actually function identically in both cases?
In TNG we saw the shields' shape when a weapon hit them ... have we ever seen a cinematic display of hull-hugging shields repelling a shot?

Err-every instance of there not being a visible bubble is evidence of either hull huggers or no shields whatsoever.

[Chmee]

As another aside, do we have any way of knowing whether the 'bubble' vs. 'hugger' issue is simply an issue of a change in DISPLAY design, while the shields themselves actually function identically in both cases?
In TNG we saw the shields' shape when a weapon hit them ... have we ever seen a cinematic display of hull-hugging shields repelling a shot?

Err-every instance of there not being a visible bubble is evidence of either hull huggers or no shields whatsoever.

Evidence of hull-huggers would be a visual of a weapon impacting on something set away from the hull, with no damage being done ... I don't recall seeing anything similar.

[Batman]

Evidence of hull-huggers would be a visual of a weapon impacting on something set away from the hull, with no damage being done ... I don't recall seeing anything similar.

The whole point of hull huggers is for them NOT being set away from the hull, or at least not by much. Are you saying that every time we DON'T see bubble shields in DS9 /TOS/the TOS movies, there ARE no shields?

[Chmee]

Evidence of hull-huggers would be a visual of a weapon impacting on something set away from the hull, with no damage being done ... I don't recall seeing anything similar.

The whole point of hull huggers is for them NOT being set away from the hull, or at least not by much. Are you saying that every time we DON'T see bubble shields in DS9 /TOS/the TOS movies, there ARE no shields?

'hug' is still not 'beneath the surface of' ... have we ever seen a visual in the aformentioned shows of a phaser/disruptor strike that seems to be being repelled by an energy barreir that conforms to the surface of the hull? Keeping in mind that most of the time when an Enterprise is under fire we only see the interior of the bridge and people telling us how much the shields are 'down' ...

[Construct]

Sorry for digressing a bit but just out of curiosity, does anyone know how to go about building an actual shield? Is this all fiction or is there any evidence today we can make shields like these seen in ST and many video games?

How does a solid 'No way in hell' grab you?
And welcome to the board.
A piece of advice-posting in a thread that's been dead for a week, especially posting something pointless like that, is frowned upon here.

Thnx. But the limit is a month.

[Batman]

'hug' is still not 'beneath the surface of' ... have we ever seen a visual in the aformentioned shows of a phaser/disruptor strike that seems to be being repelled by an energy barreir that conforms to the surface of the hull? Keeping in mind that most of the time when an Enterprise is under fire we only see the interior of the bridge and people telling us how much the shields are 'down' ...

We. Do. Not. Need. Visuals. As long as the shields are supposedly up, any hit that looks like hitting the hull hits the shields unless it actually damages the hull.

[Chmee]

'hug' is still not 'beneath the surface of' ... have we ever seen a visual in the aformentioned shows of a phaser/disruptor strike that seems to be being repelled by an energy barreir that conforms to the surface of the hull? Keeping in mind that most of the time when an Enterprise is under fire we only see the interior of the bridge and people telling us how much the shields are 'down' ...

We. Do. Not. Need. Visuals. As long as the shields are supposedly up, any hit that looks like hitting the hull hits the shields unless it actually damages the hull.

So ask the question differently, although I think I already covered it -- do we ever see weapons hitting the hull and doing no damage, implying a conforming shield?

[Batman]

So ask the question differently, although I think I already covered it -- do we ever see weapons hitting the hull and doing no damage, implying a conforming shield?

Yes?

[Metrion Cascade]

In Nemesis we see the hull huggers shimmer a few times when hit - it's easy to miss because they're close to the hull. But we actually get a pretty good picture of when the shields are effective and when they're not. Shield breaches were depicted by quick bursts of flame and debris. Weapons blocked by the shields rippled them, but with no visible effect on the hull.

As for how they work...

1.) Bubble shields. Pro: distance from hull in event of a shield breach. Con: larger silhouette leading to easier hits and more damage to ship and shields (shield damage being able to undermine the ship's operation even with shields still intact) per ordnance fired by an enemy. If you fire a volley of torpedoes at the space between the nacelles of the E-E with hull huggers, you don't land a hit. The same firing solution used on the E-E with bubble shields damages the shield grids and power systems closest to Engineering and the warp core. This isn't a problem if your shields sustain damage without damaging the systems that generate them. Trek shields seem to have a thing or two in common with Larry Niven's Langston field (that is, transferring at least some of a weapon's energy to the ship - Langston fields transfer ALL of it). Protecting the ship itself requires avoiding even shield damage.

A round shape might make a hollow object stronger, but does that apply to whatever Trek shields are made of (electromagnetic fields or somesuch)? Or would the physical stress considerations apply to the hull rather than the ship? Pushing magnet A against opposing magnet B stresses magnet B's metal. I'm not sure if it also weakens each magnet's field...?

2.) Hull huggers. Pro: smaller silhouettes from all angles, reducing damage to ship from shield impacts. Cons: shield breaches result in immediate damage to hull. Possibly more complex generating equipment, but right after the Dominion War and two Borg invasions it's about time the Feds started sparing no expense on equipping their military. (Yes, military, dammit.)

I think it bears mentioning that the worst damage to the ship's essential systems usually comes from shield overloads rather than direct hits. Shield overloads from any angle go right into the power grid and consoles, even destabilizing antimatter containment. Shield breaches against certain areas (nacelles, the bridge) can cripple the ship, but those are tighter shots than simply battering the shields all over.

The major problem I have with the potential of shield breaches with hull huggers is that a breach near the bridge can immediately kill command-level personnel (and did in Nemesis). But this is easily addressed by putting the command and control center farther inside the ship's hull.

Long story short - I don't know whether this is the case, but I think the E-E would do best with the ability to generate both bubbles and hull-huggers. If you're up against someone with hella firepower but mediocre aim, you might want a bubble IF it's more stable (I don't know). You definitely want a bubble if you're up against something like the Swarm, but that's a rarity. If you're up against a ship with less powerful weapons and better aim, then outer hull damage is less of an issue than shield overloads that are immediately channeled to essential systems and the bridge.