The red shirt cliche

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-17 11:31am

I was just wondering- there must be some Star Trek website out there where they've actually analysed all the TOS episodes to determine just what the mortality rate for red shirts is, right? I tried a google search and came up with a claim for 47% mortality rate- but the forum it linked to was screwed.

In addition, is their any mortality rate for the nameless extras in TNG/DS9/VOY etc?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-05-17 11:58am

there must be some Star Trek website out there where they've actually analysed all the TOS episodes to determine just what the mortality rate for red shirts is, right?

EAS says 56 crew losses for all three seasons, but that includes gold- and blueshirts.

It also doesn't count the times a redshirt got beat up rather then phasorised/crushed/etc.

Edit : Starfleet casualties
Edit II : "Redshirt" at MA

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-17 01:41pm

Given what they routinely faced, I found that TOS redshirts aquitted themselves as well as could be expected given their role.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-18 12:02am

NecronLord wrote:Given what they routinely faced, I found that TOS redshirts aquitted themselves as well as could be expected given their role.

Kirk: Alright men, that omnipotent and super powerful god being capable of destroying an speices with a thought is in that Temple up there, and the only way for the Enterprise to escape its clutches is to destroy it. Squads one through twelve, form a charging human wall at the front entrance. Scotty will beam down a few more squads into the main temple chamber to form a pile of human corpses that hopefully hide your attack long enough for a handful of you to get though. You three, collapse for no apparent reason and die just to show how evil and powerful that super being is. Meanwhile, I'll be in the local village scaring up some alien tail and Spock and Bones will be overseeing the slaugh.... I mean battle, completely impervious behind their character shields until Spock realizes he can kill the demi-god by overloading its mind from a distance with a few tricorder modifications, rendering all your deaths pointless. Good luck.

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » 2005-05-18 12:59am

Pure Sabacc wrote: Kirk: Alright men, that omnipotent and super powerful god being capable of destroying an speices with a thought is in that Temple up there, and the only way for the Enterprise to escape its clutches is to destroy it. Squads one through twelve, form a charging human wall at the front entrance. Scotty will beam down a few more squads into the main temple chamber to form a pile of human corpses that hopefully hide your attack long enough for a handful of you to get though. You three, collapse for no apparent reason and die just to show how evil and powerful that super being is. Meanwhile, I'll be in the local village scaring up some alien tail and Spock and Bones will be overseeing the slaugh.... I mean battle, completely impervious behind their character shields until Spock realizes he can kill the demi-god by overloading its mind from a distance with a few tricorder modifications, rendering all your deaths pointless. Good luck.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-05-18 01:01am

The most embarassing redshirt deaths had to have been when Kirk unknowingly spaced two of them in "And The Children Shall Lead".

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-18 01:14am

Patrick Degan wrote:The most embarassing redshirt deaths had to have been when Kirk unknowingly spaced two of them in "And The Children Shall Lead".

Oh do tell (my TOS knowledge sucks, I never catch it on TV and I'm not giving those fucks at Paramount that much money for a DVD).

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-18 01:17am

Patrick Degan wrote:The most embarassing redshirt deaths had to have been when Kirk unknowingly spaced two of them in "And The Children Shall Lead".

I remember that! Like a sadist, I laughed when he afterwards goes.. "I... just.... SENT... two of my men.. to their.. DEATHS...?!?!?!"

He thought they were over a planet and was beaming two Redshirts to go check it out. Only... they weren't over a planet. They were moving at warp.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2005-05-18 01:20am

Nephtys wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:The most embarassing redshirt deaths had to have been when Kirk unknowingly spaced two of them in "And The Children Shall Lead".
I remember that! Like a sadist, I laughed when he afterwards goes.. "I... just.... SENT... two of my men.. to their.. DEATHS...?!?!?!"

He thought they were over a planet and was beaming two Redshirts to go check it out. Only... they weren't over a planet. They were moving at warp.

Yeah, that really...really...sucks. I mean, it's not like Kirk didn't care or anything when people died...it was risky business, that's all. But two people just getting spaced with no warning, no idea they were headed into danger...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-05-18 01:30am

Kirk did care when one of his men or women were killed.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-05-18 03:25am

Memory Alpha wrote:Star Trek: Enterprise loses more engineers and MACOs than anybody, appropriate considering their evolution into the modern Starfleet security department. Both wear red as a department color (although MACOs seem to wear spatter camouflage more than anything).

Did this guy not notice that the NX-01 managed to get through its first two seasons without a single fatality?

Penfold · Post by **Penfold** » 2005-05-18 05:23am

Drooling Iguana wrote:
Memory Alpha wrote:Star Trek: Enterprise loses more engineers and MACOs than anybody, appropriate considering their evolution into the modern Starfleet security department. Both wear red as a department color (although MACOs seem to wear spatter camouflage more than anything).
Did this guy not notice that the NX-01 managed to get through its first two seasons without a single fatality?

Not to mention the fact that there are only three confirmed MACO deaths, unless you want to count "Twilight" (where everybody died) or the five Mirror MACOs killed by the Gorn. Sure they get their asses handed to them a few times, but they tend to survive the experience. Redshirts are much more fragile, going straight from battle to morgue.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2005-05-19 12:46am

Nephtys wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:The most embarassing redshirt deaths had to have been when Kirk unknowingly spaced two of them in "And The Children Shall Lead".
I remember that! Like a sadist, I laughed when he afterwards goes.. "I... just.... SENT... two of my men.. to their.. DEATHS...?!?!?!"

He thought they were over a planet and was beaming two Redshirts to go check it out. Only... they weren't over a planet. They were moving at warp.

If they ever do a remake of the entire TOS serie,i think that part could go like this Political Correctness removed *HOLY SHIT....i spaced two of my men*

Jarl Sven · Post by **Jarl Sven** » 2005-05-19 10:26pm

Captain Kirk: “This is a dangerous mission. Probably some of us will not survive. The landing party will consist of myself, Commander Spock, Dr, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.”

Ensign Ricky: “Oh, Crap!”

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-06-01 05:58am

Vympel wrote:Oh do tell (my TOS knowledge sucks, I never catch it on TV and I'm not giving those fucks at Paramount that much money for a DVD).

In this terrible episode, a bunch of annoying brats take over the Enterprise, and have Sulu leave orbit. No one in the transporter room seems to know, so Kirk sends two security redshirts down to the planet to secure the area.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-06-01 06:09am

Hey, one redshirt survived throughout the entire series. If you watch all the TOS episodes, you'll always see Mr. Leslie in the background, watching everything going on! He even fucking DIED in "Obsession", and CAME BACK!!

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-06-01 06:18am

Recap of the scene, from the Agony Booth's review :

Spock and Kirk head to the transporter room and Kirk briefs the two Redshirts. He has them beamed down, then tells the transporter operator to beam the other two guys up. Just like that, huh? Wouldn't he want to get in touch with those guys first, you know, to actually tell them they're about to be beamed up? Those guys could be doing anything. I mean, they could be sitting on the crapper right now for all Kirk knows. Or perhaps tenderizing the tube steak.

Anyway, the guy at the transporter flips some switches, lights flicker on and off, but no men appear. Spock takes over for the transporter operator, because I guess the guy's totally incompetent or something. Amusingly, Spock actually grabs the guy by the arm and half-shoves him away from the controls. Gee, looks like somebody hasn't gotten any pon farr lately.

Spock pushes random buttons, but reports that he can't lock onto the Redshirts' coordinates either. Because—get ready for this—"It appears we are no longer orbiting Troyaikman." Dunh-dunh-dunh! Kirk looks distraught, realizing this means they just beamed two Redshirts into empty space. Spock goes to a viewscreen and switches it on, and sure enough, the ship is in empty space. Hey, here's an idea. Why not design a viewscreen that's always on? That might be a handy little feature for times like these.

Kirk immediately contacts the bridge, but Sulu switches on his orange vinyl collector's LP and assures the captain that they're still orbiting Troyaikman, and that he can still see the planet on the viewscreen. Behind him, we see that the whole group of kids has gathered on the bridge. An outraged Kirk yells back that Sulu's "off course" and says he's coming up immediately.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-06-01 08:09am

He even fucking DIED in "Obsession", and CAME BACK!!

I seem to recall someone pointing out Scotty dying a couple of times as well. True or not?

Must have been some healing effect from all that Saurian brandy.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-06-01 08:24am

I seem to recall someone pointing out Scotty dying a couple of times as well. True or not?

He was killed by Nomad in The Changeling, then revived. After the Jenolan dissapeared, he was considered dead, until the E-D crew found him in the transporter buffer.

Jarl Sven · Post by **Jarl Sven** » 2005-06-01 10:03pm

Didn’t Apollo kill Scotty too?

You know the guy with the Adams apple and no body hair?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-06-01 10:20pm

Jarl Sven wrote:Didn’t Apollo kill Scotty too?

You know the guy with the Adams apple and no body hair?

No, not quite. He gave Scotty a PK bitch-slap and then a nasty electrical shock.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-06-01 10:52pm

Patrick Degan wrote:
Jarl Sven wrote:Didn’t Apollo kill Scotty too?

You know the guy with the Adams apple and no body hair?

No, not quite. He gave Scotty a PK bitch-slap and then a nasty electrical shock.

Like the 'WELSHIEEEEEEEE!' scene in Futurama? Against the blur-entity? Memory's being fuzzy here.