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Alyrium Denryle
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

As a Republican, I can now proudly -- indeed, defiantly -- pledge to never again vote for anyone who raises taxes for any reason. To hell with roads, bridges, schools, police and fire protection, Medicare, Social Security and regulation of the airwaves.
Nice strawman of most republicans asswipe.
roads, bridges

That is kinda funny, seeing as I live in a republican controlled state and guess what? Our roads and bridges are maintained rather well. Basic government functions like roads and bridges will be done regardless of party
schools
Local control versus federal control is the only real difference. Again... republican state, and the vast vast vast majority of our budget goes to education last time I checked.
police and fire protection
Last time I checked, also controlled by the states and well funded through sales and property taxes even in my *gasp* overwhelmingly republican controlled state.
Medicare, Social Security
DO in fact need an overhaul. Maybe if we stopped bickering, we may actually get something doine. But either way, someone is going to get hurt. Because either way, we are going to have to make some sort of transition, or raise taxes by a considerable margin, which will hurt the economy... so...what to do... sort of a fucked either way thing. I say we just bite the bullet and raise the retiring age into the 70s or something.

Medicare... hmmm... what to do with medicare... old people do need their drugs in order to stay alive I suppose... this is an issue I have yet to really form an opinion on, especially because our old people can just drive down to mexico ;P

ANd how about we put fewer regulations on our airwaves, and let parents be parents. Though I break with my party on that one
President Bush has promised to give me more tax cuts even though our federal government owes trillions of dollars to its creditors. But that's someone else's problem, not mine. Republicans are about the here and now, and I'm here now.
Hmm the opposition being... raising taxes to pay for more programs while still..running...a deficit. Granted, I HATE the fiscal idiocy of the Bush adminisration, and as an intelligent republican, would actually, you know.. balance out my damn budget proposal, and veto any budget that isnt balanced and deficit free, and hell, even raise taxes if the need does arise.

But that makes to much sense for either party.

As a Republican, I can favor exploiting the environment for everything she's got. No need to worry about quaint notions like posterity and natural legacy. There are plenty of resources left for everyone, and if we don't use them, someone else will.
This is one thing I dont agree with the GOP on, and thus you will hear no complaints. Although there are some issues I am sure this asswipe is talking about

ANWAR(or whatever the fuck its acronym is) The animals will not care. Trust me, I have lived with Caribou for years. Drilling stations in the arctic reserves will do nothing to change their migration patterns, they will think it is a big rock.

As for opening upm logging... well, thanks to irresponsible forestry policy for the last few decades, we have upsetted the natural order of our forests and they are overgrown, ready for catastophic fires rather than nice natural burns. So we literally need to thin out our forests.

Of course, most trees we use for paper and building materials are on tree farms...

I want a party that doesn't worry about things before we have to. Republicans refuse to get hog-tied by theories such as global warming, ozone depletion, fished-out oceans and disappearing wetlands. The real problems -- if there are any -- aren't forecast to take hold for at least 50 years. So what do I care? I'll be dead.
These, I do agree with. We do need to stop releasing as many greenhouse gasses, and we SHOULD switch to nuclear power. Our oceans, and expecially our sharks populations are fished out, and we should start more fish farming endevors, and we do need to actually protect the everglades et al.

As a Republican, I can swagger and clamor for war -- in Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia, wherever -- even though I've never fought in one or even been in the military. I can claim that we're fighting for Democracy, ignoring reports of torture at Abu Ghraib, Bagram Air Base and Guantanamo Bay, and a spreading gulag of secret detention centers around the world.
DO I really have to go through the alternatives? Iraq... I have done so in earlier threads, but yes, it is being managed poorly, however, invading it is good. Even if the bush administration is full of idiots, based upon the results... Iraq just had free elections and is drafting a constitution. COmpared to the alternatives for those people... we did good(torture in our prisons not withstanding.. that is deplorable)

Afghanistan... Holy shit... they openly propped up the organization that intentionally attacked innocent civilian targets on our soil... we had every right to invade them. DO do anythbing else... and frankly the terrorist shitlickers would win

Columbia... did I miss a memo? Oh that si right, assisiing their government getting rid of illegal drug trafficing and local anti-givernment guerillas... hmm seems like a good thing to do

Freedom, as every American should know after spending $300 billion for wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, isn't free.
Correct, we have to fight for freedom, and as far as I am concerned, have a moral responsibility to help others to do so. The Afghanistan war was one of retalliation for a crime they commited against THOUSANDS of our civilian population, and if we didnt, we would not have freedom The primary fiurst and foremost function of goivernment is to provide physical security of its citizens, if we do not invade the country that harbors those who hijack planes and send them careening into buildings, our givernment fails at providing that security

And the Iraq war, even if done for the wrong reasons... well... free elections after decades of despotism 'nuff said.
As a Republican, I can insist on strict moral values when it comes to sex and ignore the growing moral chasms in business, politics, sports, journalism and the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church.
Agreed, with certain pre-stated caveats regarding the RCC

A society that loses control of its sexual urges faces unwanted pregnancies, socially transmitted disease, broken families. Those overzealous about wealth, however, produce only a higher GDP, lifelong security for their family and more minimum wage jobs for the lower classes. What's wrong with that?
Agreed, hence my support of sex education. WHat this fucktard doesnt understand, is that A) only unskilled positions are minimum wage and the vast vast vast majority of those jobs are worked by teenagers. And second, we have social programs which he loves so much in order to help those who work min wage jobs and are not in fact teenagers

As a Republican, I can favor strict punishment of criminals, except for those who happen to be my friends or neighbors. Isn't that the very definition of community -- looking out for friends and family?
Agreed, everyone should be punished harshly regardless of status :P

I will be pro-death penalty and anti-abortion, pro-child but anti-child care, for education but against funding of public schools.
The death panalty and abortions are not morally equivalent. That asside I LIKE abortions, keeps the surpluss population down.

And of course it is a difference between federal and state funding of schools. Maybe if boith parties would let us legalize and place a hefty tax on pot, we wouldnt need federal funds

I wont even comment on the jesus bit
outsourcing of jobs
I am going to point out that we live in a globalized economy whether this man likes it or not, and we are going through a bit of an economic shift right now. I wonder if he would complain about the loss of jobs as carriage makers when the car was invented and put into mass production.
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Post by Darth Wong »

You know, Alyrium, if you are going to seriously attempt to refute exaggerated single-sentence statements piece by piece as if they were serious treatises, you must be either moronic or humourless.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Darth Wong wrote:You know, Alyrium, if you are going to seriously attempt to refute exaggerated single-sentence statements piece by piece as if they were serious treatises, you must be either moronic or humourless.
It is more the later rather than the former :P
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Post by felineki »

Perinquus wrote:
felineki wrote:"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change!" :)

Very amusing article. Sad that it's so true, though.
So sad that it's loaded to the gills with strawmen you mean. It is humorous, and it is not entirely without valid points. To think that it is a realistic appraisal of just how Repulblicans think is not only wrong, it's mean-spirited.
Well, I didn't mean that it is a completely accurate portrayal of every Rebublican's interest. I'm sorry if it came across that way. What I meant by that it is "true" is bascially what you said: it brings up several points that have valid grounding in actions taken my various members of the Republican party. Not that every single Republican does what this article portrays.
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Post by Jew »

Dalton wrote:George Carlin said something about this once on Imus - the left tends to care more about people, while the right tends to care more about property.
That's the common stereotype. The fact is that property matters because people own it. One cannot claim to care about people while at the same time taking their property away. Neither is it ethical to claim to respect the property rights of citizens while denying citizens the basic rights such as free speech and freedom to travel.

Respect for property rights is vital to any free society. Citizens will never be free if they cannot freely buy, own, sell, use, and defend property.

It's silly to say that the left cares about people and the right cares about property. Both sides care about both. They just have different ideas about how to protect people and property. The goal is the same: a free, safe, secure, happy, and responsible society. A better world where each man has a decent shot at success and has access to the benefits of modern civilization. A world where no man ever lacks the basic necessities of life: air, food, water, and shelter. It's just that different people have different ideas about how to best achieve that goal in the real world.
She did not answer, which is the damnedest way of winning an argument I know of.
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Post by Dalton »

I sincerely doubt most politicians are that noble.
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Post by Beowulf »

wolveraptor wrote:3. Bush has made needless war, and isn't even a veteran.
Did the definition of veteran change when I wasn't looking?
Dictionary.com wrote: 2. A person who has served in the armed forces: “Privilege, a token income... were allowed for veterans of both world wars” (Mavis Gallant).
Some argument could me made that even if needless, Iraq was a just war. Compared to Clinton (just for recent memory, and I was actually old enough to remember hhis administration), "Hey! My screwing an intern is in the press! Let's lob some missiles at some place." "Hey, there's this humanitarian thing in Somila I want to send the military into, but I won't allow them to bring in any of their nice toys." etc.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Jew wrote:Respect for property rights is vital to any free society. Citizens will never be free if they cannot freely buy, own, sell, use, and defend property.
I hate to break this to you, but it is a fact that "freedom" is a matter of degrees, not absolutes. And totally "free" property rights would fuck up any society, which is why no country (including the US) has them.
It's silly to say that the left cares about people and the right cares about property. Both sides care about both. They just have different ideas about how to protect people and property. The goal is the same: a free, safe, secure, happy, and responsible society. A better world where each man has a decent shot at success and has access to the benefits of modern civilization. A world where no man ever lacks the basic necessities of life: air, food, water, and shelter. It's just that different people have different ideas about how to best achieve that goal in the real world.
If that lofty-sounding rhetoric is true, then could you explain why the notion of universal health-care is anathema to the Right? If they long for a world where "no man ever lacks the basic necessities", how do they reconcile this with people being forced out of their homes by medical bills? Why are they so contemptuous and hostile toward proven systems in other first-world nations which do not suffer from this problem?
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Post by Mr. B »

Alliance SpecForceTrooper wrote:
Yea, brainiac. Ever occur to you that the equations themselves, the so-called Hockey Stick is bullshit?

Kyoto is usually what is held up as being proof that Bush wants to somehow toxify the Earth.
Prove that they are bullshit, and then prove that global warming is bullshit.
Global temperatures have risen faster than at any time in history. Glaciers and polar regions are shrinking just as fast. In the actic the warming weather and shortening of the winter has caused a huge disruption in the lifecycle of the polar bear, its territiries are getting warming earlier than at any time and if they cannot use the ice caps to hunt seals then they cannot eat, and thus are in danger of extinction.

And do not bring up another lame excuse about if the Earth is warming then why did we just get 10 feet of snow. Global warming changes the earths weather patterns involving earlier springs, droughts, intense monsoons, and coastal flooding.

This is not some normal earth event this happens, it has roots in the massive emissions of Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere.
Alliance SpecForceTrooper wrote: Kyoto is usually what is held up as being proof that Bush wants to somehow toxify the Earth.
No, they usually point to Bushs record on pollution when they want to show proof of his wanting to toxify the world.
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Post by Mr. B »

And I almost forgot. You are an asshat.
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Post by Superman »

Mr. B wrote:And I almost forgot. You are an asshat.
Just how many industrialized nations are participating in Kyoto anyway? Boy, good thing they're all stupid and we're smart!
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Post by Mr. B »

Superman wrote:
Mr. B wrote:And I almost forgot. You are an asshat.
Just how many industrialized nations are participating in Kyoto anyway? Boy, good thing they're all stupid and we're smart!
I think its something like everybody but us and Zimbabwe.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

This is not some normal earth event this happens, it has roots in the massive emissions of Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere.
Not to dispute the truth in this, climate change IS a natural process, and humans only contribute to it. The real question is whether or not we can actually do anything to stop it... realistically speaking, and that depends upon the exact percentage of human contribution to the process.

Oh and by the way, there was no need to call anyone an asshat in a stupid one-liner, it doesnt really do anything to support your case, and just makes you seem a bit infantile
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Post by Superman »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
This is not some normal earth event this happens, it has roots in the massive emissions of Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere.
Not to dispute the truth in this, climate change IS a natural process, and humans only contribute to it. The real question is whether or not we can actually do anything to stop it... realistically speaking, and that depends upon the exact percentage of human contribution to the process.

Oh and by the way, there was no need to call anyone an asshat in a stupid one-liner, it doesnt really do anything to support your case, and just makes you seem a bit infantile
I disagree. Flame on!
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Post by Darth Wong »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Oh and by the way, there was no need to call anyone an asshat in a stupid one-liner, it doesnt really do anything to support your case, and just makes you seem a bit infantile
You of all people should not be lecturing anyone on being infantile.
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Post by Mr. B »

Alyrium Denryle wrote: Not to dispute the truth in this, climate change IS a natural process, and humans only contribute to it. The real question is whether or not we can actually do anything to stop it... realistically speaking, and that depends upon the exact percentage of human contribution to the process.

Oh and by the way, there was no need to call anyone an asshat in a stupid one-liner, it doesnt really do anything to support your case, and just makes you seem a bit infantile
Of course climate change is a natural process, but we are accelerating it beyond what earth can handle. And there are several ways to try and stop it. Kyoto is a start but I am not convinced that any treaty on climate change will work or have any effect without the US.

And sorry about the infantile comments, im just tired and hate people right now.
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Post by Jew »

Darth Wong wrote:
Jew wrote:Respect for property rights is vital to any free society. Citizens will never be free if they cannot freely buy, own, sell, use, and defend property.
I hate to break this to you, but it is a fact that "freedom" is a matter of degrees, not absolutes. And totally "free" property rights would fuck up any society, which is why no country (including the US) has them.
Clearly property rights must be reconciled with other rights, such as the right to life and the right to free speech. Both the right and left ends of the political spectrum understand and agree on this--they just differ in the niggling details of it.
Darth Wong wrote:If that lofty-sounding rhetoric is true, then could you explain why the notion of universal health-care is anathema to the Right?
Many people believe that a truly free market system for health care will spur innovation which will--in the long run--provide greater total health benefits than a socialized system. It's a valid point of view. Whether or not it's realistic is another discussion, but the fact is that many people believe that the best way to provide quality health care to the greatest number of people is to let the free market supply it.

Of course many people don't think a free market will supply good health care. Fine. That's also a valid point of view. Let's debate it.

The point is that both sides--the socialized health care advocates and the free market health care advocates--both want good health care to be available to as many people as possible in the long run. They just disagree on whether the free market forces will best supply such health care.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Mr. B wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote: Not to dispute the truth in this, climate change IS a natural process, and humans only contribute to it. The real question is whether or not we can actually do anything to stop it... realistically speaking, and that depends upon the exact percentage of human contribution to the process.

Oh and by the way, there was no need to call anyone an asshat in a stupid one-liner, it doesnt really do anything to support your case, and just makes you seem a bit infantile
Of course climate change is a natural process, but we are accelerating it beyond what earth can handle. And there are several ways to try and stop it. Kyoto is a start but I am not convinced that any treaty on climate change will work or have any effect without the US.

And sorry about the infantile comments, im just tired and hate people right now.
CO2 in our atmor is at 350 PPM, it hasnt been that high since the last ice age. However in geological time that was spitting distance away. And frankly, our organisms will adapt of die, that is the way of nature. You cant really "ruin" nature with climate change anymore than you can "waste" water that cycles back and is reused no matter what we do with it.
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Post by Alliance SpecForceTrooper »

Mr. B wrote:Prove that they are bullshit, and then prove that global warming is bullshit.
If you had actually bothered to read my statement you cockmunch, I never said Global Warming wasn't a reality. Since your eyes don't work or maybe you think with your ass instead of your head, I stated this:
Is Global Warming a reality? Yes, but its a natural cycle of the Earth. We can no more stop it than we could cause the Sun to go out.
temperatures have risen faster than at any time in history.
Bullshit. Ever heard of the Medieval Warming Trend or maybe the Dark Ages Cooling Period? What about The Little Ice Age? Look them up if you're unfamiliar with them.
Glaciers and polar regions are shrinking just as fast.
http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=258012005
In the actic the warming weather and shortening of the winter has caused a huge disruption in the lifecycle of the polar bear, its territiries are getting warming earlier than at any time and if they cannot use the ice caps to hunt seals then they cannot eat, and thus are in danger of extinction.
Survival of the fittest. Darwinism in action.
This is not some normal earth event this happens, it has roots in the massive emissions of Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere.
http://www.marshall.org/article.php?id=13
No, they usually point to Bushs record on pollution when they want to show proof of his wanting to toxify the world.


Site me an example, please.
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Post by Mr. B »

Alyrium Denryle wrote: CO2 in our atmor is at 350 PPM, it hasnt been that high since the last ice age. However in geological time that was spitting distance away. And frankly, our organisms will adapt of die, that is the way of nature. You cant really "ruin" nature with climate change anymore than you can "waste" water that cycles back and is reused no matter what we do with it.
No, the levels of CO2 befoer hte industrial revolution were about 280 ppm, today they are around 370ppm it hasnt been that high in 420,000 years.

So what if humans cant adapt to global warming. And we can ruin nature through climate change, it can cause desertification which would ruin most environments that arent deserts.
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Post by Thinkmarble »

Alliance SpecForceTrooper wrote:
http://www.marshall.org/article.php?id=13
I prefer to trust climate scientists before rightwing thinkthanks.
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Post by Mr. B »

Alliance SpecForceTrooper wrote: Bullshit. Ever heard of the Medieval Warming Trend or maybe the Dark Ages Cooling Period? What about The Little Ice Age? Look them up if you're unfamiliar with them.
Yes I have heard of them. And the present warming is happening faster than those were, and the warming has happened in the last 100 years. The same time as the industrial revolution. In the last 25 years temps have gone up .4F thats a lot for such a short period.



http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=258012005
some article from scotland doesnt prove anything.


Survival of the fittest. Darwinism in action.
Sucks for them huh. Better hope we dont die too.
An article from some think tank isnt evidence. Who are these people, who does their research?
No, they usually point to Bushs record on pollution when they want to show proof of his wanting to toxify the world.


Site me an example, please.[/quote] Bush raising the mercury emissions standards of power plants for one.
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Post by Superman »

Thinkmarble wrote:
Alliance SpecForceTrooper wrote:
http://www.marshall.org/article.php?id=13
I prefer to trust climate scientists before rightwing thinkthanks.
Thinkmarble, don't you know that people like Rush Limbaugh and Dubya are infinately more qualified to make judgements regarding climate change than scientists who study this? Pfff... silly boy.
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Post by Mr. B »

Damn i fucked up that quoting good.
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Post by Mr. B »

Survival of the fittest. Darwinism in action.
Why should are actions lead to the destruction of another species? By what right do we have to wipe out another species. And if we are the cause of a species's extinction and we can do something to either prevent it or to reverse the course then I believe we should.

BTW This should be continued on another thread, this was about the funny GOP article
"I got so high last night I figured out how clouds work." - the miracle of marijuana

Legalize It!

Proud Member of the local 404 Professional Cynics Union.

"Every Revolution carries within it the seeds of its own destruction."-Dune
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