Which is worst film Matrix Revolutions or Starship Troopers?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-02-18 02:13pm

Matrix Revolutions is by far the worst. It claimed to be something it wasn't. While STT was exactly what it claimed to be. All you have to do is watch the damn film to see that it wasn't written with the word "serious" in mind.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-02-18 02:23pm

Where is the "both mutalitaed and killed" (tm WWWF grudge match) option?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-02-18 03:50pm

Darth Servo wrote:Where is the "both mutalitaed and killed" (tm WWWF grudge match) option?

Why do you consider SST bad at all?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-02-18 03:55pm

Maybe for some of the reasons I and others have mentioned here and in the other thread.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-02-18 05:27pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:Where is the "both mutalitaed and killed" (tm WWWF grudge match) option?
Why do you consider SST bad at all?

I remember one of the posters for TPM in 99. It was mocking the deplorable Godzilla movie and slogan "Size does matter" but rewording it "Plot does Matter". The same can be said for SST.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-18 05:39pm

Crown wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Crown wrote:Well I'm on record on this matter as violently hating SST more, so no questions as to which way I voted.
Yeah, but you're a Matrix fanboy. That's made rather obvious by your attempts to lambast SST even though Matrix: Revolutions shares every one of its flaws and then adds a deadly, ponderous, pretentious sense of its own self-importance which the hilariously satirical SST does not suffer from.

Interesting. I'm a Matrix 'fanboy' because I felt another movie was more horrid than Revolutions? My hasn't the definition broadened.

You're a Matrix fanboy because you actually think that the dialogue and combat in SST was worse than that of Matrix: Revolutions. Name one memorable line of dialogue from Matrix: Revolutions. Name anything that can stand up to Sergeant Zim's infamous "the enemy cannot push a button when you disable his hand" line, which had me laughing my ass off for five minutes. What's the great line? "Neo, I believe"? "Because I choose to?" No one could possibly compare SST's dialogue negative to Matrix: Revolutions unless he's either deaf, insane, or a rabid Matrix fanboy. You've defended the Matrix series before; why pretend you're not a Matrix fanboy?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-02-18 05:56pm

Darth Wong wrote:You're a Matrix fanboy because you actually think that the dialogue and combat in SST was worse than that of Matrix: Revolutions. Name one memorable line of dialogue from Matrix: Revolutions. Name anything that can stand up to Sergeant Zim's infamous "the enemy cannot push a button when you disable his hand" line, which had me laughing my ass off for five minutes. What's the great line? "Neo, I believe"? "Because I choose to?" No one could possibly compare SST's dialogue negative to Matrix: Revolutions unless he's either deaf, insane, or a rabid Matrix fanboy. You've defended the Matrix series before; why pretend you're not a Matrix fanboy?

This just reminded me of a bash.org quote that I just have to post.

http://www.bash.org/?283847 wrote:El Fry Guy: That reminds me. I was kicked out of history class for making a joke about the holocaust
El Fry Guy: The teacher puts in this after school special or some shit about the holocaust. Guess who hosted it?
JoseoftheWired: Who
El Fry Guy: I shit you not. Keanu Fucking Reeves.
JoseoftheWired: haha
El Fry Guy: As he's talking I burst out laughing then say "Then Hitler jumps out of the sky and says 'Dude. I have a most excellent solution.'"

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-02-18 06:06pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Maybe for some of the reasons I and others have mentioned here and in the other thread.

Ah but those reasons might not be his, correct?

Besides a lot of those reasons are based off a poor understanding for what the movie was about.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2005-02-18 07:10pm

Troop encouragement lines.

Matrix:

If it's our time to die, it's our time. All I ask is: if we have to give these bastards our lives, we give 'em hell before we do!"

SST:

"WE are going in with the first wave! Leaves more bugs for us to kill...you smash the entire area, you kill anything that has more then two legs YOU GET ME?"
"WE GET YOU SIR!"

pwned.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-02-18 09:12pm

Actually, as for quotability, The Matrix Revolutions does have one thing. This of course falls under good thing #2, namely Hugo Weaving.

"Why, Mr. Anderson? Why do you do it? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something? For more that your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Yes? No? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception. The temporary abstracts of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?"

Of course, its utterly fucked up by Neo's response of: Because I choose to.

That scene could actually have been salvaged if Smith would have recoiled from that response and said something like: Mr. Anderson, I spend a whole MINUTE going through my diatribe, and the best response you can come up with is "Because I choose to"? Quite honestly, I'm amazed you manage to walk and not drool over yourself at the same time, Mr. Anderson. And to think that you were the last saviour of mankind. They might as well have hired a sock puppet to fill in that position. At least it would show a greater variety of facial expressions.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-19 03:37am

YT300000 wrote:Actually, as for quotability, The Matrix Revolutions does have one thing. This of course falls under good thing #2, namely Hugo Weaving.

Agent Smith was good in the first movie (he was the only thing which saved the movie). But in the second and third movie his character was fucked up. He became long-winded and pompous in the second movie, and he lost his cool in the third movie.

"Why, Mr. Anderson? Why do you do it? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something? For more that your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Yes? No? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception. The temporary abstracts of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?"

See, this is not the original Agent Smith. The whole point of Agent Smith was his smug coolness. "I'm going to enjoy watching you die, Mister Anderson" and "that is the sound of inevitability" are the sort of cocksure lines that made Agent Smith a good character. The original Agent Smith (not the fucked-up sequel version) would have said something more contemptuous. Something like (note that this should be said slowly, deliberately, calmly, and above all, confidently): "Look at you, laying in a pool of your own blood, struggling to win a battle you can't possibly win. Do you think you're fighting for a just cause? Do you fight for humanity? For Zion? Or for something as ridiculous and insipid as what you humans call love? Has it dawned on you yet? The inevitability? The sheer pointlessness of it all? What were you hoping to gain, Mister Anderson?"

Of course, that's hardly polished. But it's a lot closer to the original Agent Smith than that guy in Matrix: Revolutions. Bewildered, confused ... what the fuck kind of agent is that? The point is to make him confident, asking Neo what he was fighting for not out of confusion, but a purely academic curiosity, the way a scientist might be curious about a fly before dissecting it.

Of course, its utterly fucked up by Neo's response of: Because I choose to.

The worst thing is that the dialogue of the film was building up to that line, which was obviously intended to be some kind of climactic moment. Pathetic.

That scene could actually have been salvaged if Smith would have recoiled from that response and said something like: Mr. Anderson, I spend a whole MINUTE going through my diatribe, and the best response you can come up with is "Because I choose to"? Quite honestly, I'm amazed you manage to walk and not drool over yourself at the same time, Mr. Anderson. And to think that you were the last saviour of mankind. They might as well have hired a sock puppet to fill in that position. At least it would show a greater variety of facial expressions.

No, that sounds more like somebody posting on this board.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-02-19 05:32am

Darth Wong wrote:You're a Matrix fanboy because you actually think that the dialogue and combat in SST was worse than that of Matrix: Revolutions. Name one memorable line of dialogue from Matrix: Revolutions. Name anything that can stand up to Sergeant Zim's infamous "the enemy cannot push a button when you disable his hand" line, which had me laughing my ass off for five minutes. What's the great line? "Neo, I believe"? "Because I choose to?" No one could possibly compare SST's dialogue negative to Matrix: Revolutions unless he's either deaf, insane, or a rabid Matrix fanboy.

Nothing. I can't, honestly, think of one line in the Matrix Revolutions that I would consider 'wow'. So? I can't remember SST. I walked out that theatre feeling like I just lost 2hrs of my life. Total black out. Matrix Revolutions, I saw more than a handfull of times, cost me absolutely nothing. I don't own it on DVD, nor do I plan to (despite owning the first one, Reloaded, and (unfortunately) the AniMatrix and being someone who generally likes to 'complete' collections). As far as I'm concerened I'll never buy Revolutions.

SST on the other hand cost me $10.50 that I'll never get back. That is enough for me to hate it more.

Darth Wong wrote:You've defended the Matrix series before; why pretend you're not a Matrix fanboy?

I've never 'defended' anything. I've posted on Matrix threads before, I've posted on what I believe some of the plot points were. But I've never defended anything. Even in this thread I haven't tried to 'defend' it. All I've done is say; for me SST was worse. Oooooh, what a fanboy statement, get out the branding iron.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-19 01:26pm

Crown wrote:I've never 'defended' anything. I've posted on Matrix threads before, I've posted on what I believe some of the plot points were. But I've never defended anything.

Sure you have; by screeching about the dialogue and action of SST, you are implicitly claiming that the dialogue and action of Matrix: Revolutions is better than that of SST.

Even in this thread I haven't tried to 'defend' it. All I've done is say; for me SST was worse. Oooooh, what a fanboy statement, get out the branding iron.

News flash: defending something in a comparative thread is saying that the other one is worse, fucktard.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2005-02-19 01:36pm

I vote for MR. At least SST, no matter how cheesy, is still a fun action movie and doesn't make us frowning through all those "philosopher-wannabe" shits.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-02-19 01:36pm

Darth Wong wrote:
YT300000 wrote:Actually, as for quotability, The Matrix Revolutions does have one thing. This of course falls under good thing #2, namely Hugo Weaving.
Agent Smith was good in the first movie (he was the only thing which saved the movie). But in the second and third movie his character was fucked up. He became long-winded and pompous in the second movie, and he lost his cool in the third movie.
"Why, Mr. Anderson? Why do you do it? Why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something? For more that your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Yes? No? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception. The temporary abstracts of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?"
See, this is not the original Agent Smith. The whole point of Agent Smith was his smug coolness. "I'm going to enjoy watching you die, Mister Anderson" and "that is the sound of inevitability" are the sort of cocksure lines that made Agent Smith a good character. The original Agent Smith (not the fucked-up sequel version) would have said something more contemptuous. Something like (note that this should be said slowly, deliberately, calmly, and above all, confidently): "Look at you, laying in a pool of your own blood, struggling to win a battle you can't possibly win. Do you think you're fighting for a just cause? Do you fight for humanity? For Zion? Or for something as ridiculous and insipid as what you humans call love? Has it dawned on you yet? The inevitability? The sheer pointlessness of it all? What were you hoping to gain, Mister Anderson?"

Of course, that's hardly polished. But it's a lot closer to the original Agent Smith than that guy in Matrix: Revolutions. Bewildered, confused ... what the fuck kind of agent is that? The point is to make him confident, asking Neo what he was fighting for not out of confusion, but a purely academic curiosity, the way a scientist might be curious about a fly before dissecting it.

True. But in a horrid movie on the scale of Revolutions, that was the best line in it.

That scene could actually have been salvaged if Smith would have recoiled from that response and said something like: Mr. Anderson, I spend a whole MINUTE going through my diatribe, and the best response you can come up with is "Because I choose to"? Quite honestly, I'm amazed you manage to walk and not drool over yourself at the same time, Mr. Anderson. And to think that you were the last saviour of mankind. They might as well have hired a sock puppet to fill in that position. At least it would show a greater variety of facial expressions.
No, that sounds more like somebody posting on this board.

Yes, but with the tremendous shittiness of Revolutions, it would have easily been the best line in the movie, and would have made that one particular scene entertaining.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-02-19 01:57pm

Matrix Revolutions, hands down. I actually enjoyed the first one and was mildly amused by the second. Revolutions took a big shit on those two movies and really caused a pretty good trilogy to not have an ending. I won't even buy it for 'completions sake'. It now ranks up there with the sencond Highlander movie (that was never made.

). Utterly crap.

There are a few small bits of the movie that were ok, but overall the whole plot was horrible. The dialouge sucked, the acting war marinal and the plot devices were total rip offs.

What made SST some what crappy was small things. The acting was way overboard, giving the movie a chessey feel. The military tactics were pathetic to the point it was funny.

All in all, it was like watching an old Buch Rogers or Star Trek. Chessey and Corny as hell, but amusing because so.

Matrix Revolutions was just insulting.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-02-19 02:03pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Crown wrote:I've never 'defended' anything. I've posted on Matrix threads before, I've posted on what I believe some of the plot points were. But I've never defended anything.
Sure you have; by screeching about the dialogue and action of SST, you are implicitly claiming that the dialogue and action of Matrix: Revolutions is better than that of SST.

'Screeching'

Expressing a personal taste is now 'screeching'?

You called me a 'fanboy' and then based it on 'defended Matrix Revolutions before', care to back that up, or is it now ok to label someone a 'fanboy' for liking something more than something else (the irony of which is a thread about the lowest end of quality in Sci-Fi)?

I don't care if you like SST better than Matrix Revolutions. I don't care if you feel my own subjective feelings on what makes 'good' and 'bad' are not the same as yours.

What I do care about is the 'fanboy' label, just because I disagree with you, and just because I 'like' (notice the quotation marks there?) something more than something else. Hell with your definition I'm also a 'fanboy' of the following;

Mustard over tomato sauce
Nutella over butter
Motorbikes over cars
Normal colars on jumpers over V-necks
Lace up shoes over slip ons
The color purple over orange, etc

For fucks sake, if I was saying Matrix = Homer, or Matrix = Shakespeare, then please, lable away, but god forbid I find the festering sore that is SST worse than Matrix Revolutions!

And this 'defending it in a comparitive thread' tangent is particularly funny. All I did was post my reasons for hating SST more than Matrix Revolutions only when asked to expand on my views and did not try and attack or refute others views, that a fanboy does not make.

Darth Wong wrote:
Even in this thread I haven't tried to 'defend' it. All I've done is say; for me SST was worse. Oooooh, what a fanboy statement, get out the branding iron.
News flash: defending something in a comparative thread is saying that the other one is worse, fucktard.

Aha, spoken like a true SST 'fanboy' ...

When you're ready to define 'fanboy' in the proper context in which it is applied, then by all means I'm all ears. Unless of course if you meant 'fanboy' in jest, which I doubt given your response.

But answer me this, is it acceptable to now label you a SST 'fanboy' based on your own defenition? If yes, I conceed and eat some humble pie and apologise for my fanboy behaivour.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-19 10:37pm

Crown wrote:'Screeching' Expressing a personal taste is now 'screeching'?

When someone points out that your "cheesy dialogue" complaint is stupid because the film was intended to be satirical, your response was a giant bolded "it's still a shitty film". I'd call that "screeching".

You called me a 'fanboy' and then based it on 'defended Matrix Revolutions before', care to back that up, or is it now ok to label someone a 'fanboy' for liking something more than something else (the irony of which is a thread about the lowest end of quality in Sci-Fi)?

Screeching about the flaws of a film that you can't even remember very well by your own admission is a more than adequate example of what I'm talking about.

Darth Wong wrote:News flash: defending something in a comparative thread is saying that the other one is worse, fucktard.
Aha, spoken like a true SST 'fanboy' ...

Did I ever deny defending SST in this thread? Nope. Please peddle your completely irrelevant misdirected bullshit retorts somewhere else.

When you're ready to define 'fanboy' in the proper context in which it is applied, then by all means I'm all ears. Unless of course if you meant 'fanboy' in jest, which I doubt given your response.

No, I did not mean it in jest. Refusing to admit the flaws of a film is a fanboyish trait, and when you are so absolutely sure that SST was worse than Matrix: Revolutions despite admitting that you don't even clearly recall SST, I'd say that's 110% fanboy.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-02-19 10:51pm

I dunno. If you said that Porky's was a shitty film, but Howard the Duck was worse, would that make you a Porky's fanboy?

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2005-02-19 11:01pm

Zor wrote:The Ending in the Matrix Revolutions is ABYSMALY, MIND NUMINGLY, INSULTINGLY BAD when it could have been done very well. The music sucked and they turned Neo into a Goku wannabee.

wwwwwwoooooo StarShip Troopers, good times, good times, damn tv syndicit editing, plus we learn that the AFL (Arena Football League) will live past the NFL wooooooooo

lol Goku wannabee and lets face it Goku is a person u wannabee

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2005-02-19 11:04pm

Tychu wrote:
Zor wrote:The Ending in the Matrix Revolutions is ABYSMALY, MIND NUMINGLY, INSULTINGLY BAD when it could have been done very well. The music sucked and they turned Neo into a Goku wannabee.
wwwwwwoooooo StarShip Troopers, good times, good times, damn tv syndicit editing, plus we learn that the AFL (Arena Football League) will live past the NFL wooooooooo

lol Goku wannabee and lets face it Goku isn't a person u wannabee

why couldnt i edit that look above at the italicized word

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-02-20 05:58am

Darth Wong wrote:When someone points out that your "cheesy dialogue" complaint is stupid because the film was intended to be satirical, your response was a giant bolded "it's still a shitty film". I'd call that "screeching".

Aha, did escape your attention that I only responded in the manner that it was asked?

Darth Wong wrote:Screeching about the flaws of a film that you can't even remember very well by your own admission is a more than adequate example of what I'm talking about.

No it is not, you're applying a False Dilemma fallacy in order to justify your assumption of the label 'fanboy'. You're saying that attacking SST over Matrix Revolutions means that it can only be justified if your a 'fanboy', whereas there exist another option; I vehemently hate SST regardless of what movie it is compared to. Or is it a alternative syllogism fallacy (A or B; if not A, then B)?

Either way, you're assuming that my hatred of SST is based on an irrational love of Matrix Revolutions.

Darth Wong wrote:Did I ever deny defending SST in this thread? Nope. Please peddle your completely irrelevant misdirected bullshit retorts somewhere else.

How is it 'irrelevant misdirection bullshit' Mike? I've never defended Matrix Revolutions. Not on this thread, not in any thread. All I've done is attacked SST, consistantly, in any thread which it was brought up and I participated in. You're taking my 'attack' of SST as a 'defence' of Matrix Revolutions, and cry foul when I take your 'attack' of Matrix Revolutions as a 'defence' of SST.

Darth Wong wrote:No, I did not mean it in jest. Refusing to admit the flaws of a film is a fanboyish trait, and when you are so absolutely sure that SST was worse than Matrix: Revolutions despite admitting that you don't even clearly recall SST, I'd say that's 110% fanboy.

Who's refusing to admit the flaws in Matrix Revolutions Mike? Where did I do that? The initial thread was which would you rather watch 10 hours of, MR or SST? I chose MR, you pointed out that the tactics of MR were worse, I agreed. You mentioned the dialogue, I said point blank, my hatred for SST prohibited me from even remembering the fucker.

I'll make this very simple for you to understand; I would rather watch non stop marathons of the following movies ; Matrix Revolutions, Highlander II, Four Weddings and a Funeral, Titanic, anything other than SST. Not because I'm a 'fanboy' of the above, but because I hate with a passion that borders on the irrational (truth goes way beyond) SST. Do you get it now? The appropriate label would be 'SST haterboy' not Matrix 'fanboy'.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Which is worst film Matrix Revolutions or Starship Troopers?

Which film is worse