Andorian races/sub-species (spoilers)

[Lord Revan]

well the Andorians are one species that suffer from the "Changing face"-syndrome, it's as this is one of few cases were dismissing ENT is a bad idea.

this what different trek series/movies say that a (pure) Andorians should look like.

1. The orginal TOS andorians. Blue skin, white hair and thick antennae protruding from back of their head (almost on top of their ears), other wise they look like human (only males seen).
2. the TMP Andorians, almost idential to TOS andorians, but have different antennae (thinner and not so insectoid and they come from forehead ridges) and their hair is bit yellow.
3. ST IV Andorians. Anntennae closer to TOS design (but still as thin as the TMP design) and the hair is again pure white (only males seen).
4. TNG Andorian(from the Offspring". This seem to be B&B at work here. Dark green skin, very thin ridged antennae protruding from same place as TOS andorians (only female hologram seen (thought it looked like a male)).
5. ENT Andorian. compromise between the TOS and TMP design. Blue skin, white hair and thin antennae that move (both males and females(and these do not only look female, but sometimes even a bit sexy) seen.

Ok the Movie and ENT designes are so close each other that they can considered to the same race/sub-species.

the position (and shape) of the Antennae could Racial difference.

But the TNG srew-up cannot be just different race (it's too different)

the ENT episode "The Aenar" have Andorian Sub-species called The Aenar who pale and blind(, but telepathic), this can explain the TNG Andorians as different sub-species.

so get (pure) Andorians with at least two races(TOS and ENT) and two sub-species the Aenar and the (unnamed)TNG Andorians.

so what do you think?

[brianeyci]

But the TNG srew-up cannot be just different race (it's too different)

You mean they can't be a different race because there are too many similarities?

We only know of Aenar as a subspecies. We know they are pacifist and never go outside their ice caverns.

Hair can be dyed.

There can be variations in the population.

Maybe some screencaps would help.

Brian

[Lord Revan]

But the TNG srew-up cannot be just different race (it's too different)

You mean they can't be a different race because there are too many similarities?

We only know of Aenar as a subspecies. We know they are pacifist and never go outside their ice caverns.

Hair can be dyed.

There can be variations in the population.

Maybe some screencaps would help.

Brian

meant what I said (IIRC you're member of different race(but not of different species) The TNG Andorian, ENT Andorian male, ENT Andorian Female, TOS Andorian and an Aenar (the TNG pic is from Ex-astis-scientia.org and the rest from DITL.org)

[Stofsk]

The differences between the TOS and ENT Andorians and with TNG Andorians can be analogous to the differences between a white guy and a black guy, or an asian. The hair just happens to be of a different style, the antennae are different but that in itself doesn't say anything (IE an asian's eyes are slightly slanted, whereas a white guy's isn't, and there's no functional difference between the two).

Really, what I think we got here is another race in the Andorian population. Frankly, I'm stunned. This kind of diversity is welcome and good for the show.

[Darth Lucifer]

The differences between the TOS and ENT Andorians and with TNG Andorians can be analogous to the differences between a white guy and a black guy, or an asian. The hair just happens to be of a different style, the antennae are different but that in itself doesn't say anything (IE an asian's eyes are slightly slanted, whereas a white guy's isn't, and there's no functional difference between the two).

Really, what I think we got here is another race in the Andorian population. Frankly, I'm stunned. This kind of diversity is welcome and good for the show.

Agreed. I even kind of liked the blind, albino telepathic andorians. I didn't like the Remans...are they supposed to be an offshoot of the Romulans or a mutation? I forget. I'll be back while I dig up the answer...

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I consider it to be a style evolution over more than three decades, with a tendency to hold onto traditional depiction for TMP and STVI, a fluke with TNG, and an overhaul/update of the TOS design with ENT.

[Darth Lucifer]

Kind of weird that I can't find an entry for Remans in the [Aliens] databank at StarTrek.com. Still hunting...

[Darth Lucifer]

From Memory Alpha.org
The Remans are a humanoid race from the planet Remus.

Remus is a tidally locked planet, and hence the Remans, who reside on the planet's dark side, cannot withstand light very well. (It is not known whether the Remans descended from Romulan colonists on Remus' dark side or are native to the planet.) When the Romulans arrived in the Romulan system and colonized Romulus, they subjugated the Remans relegating them to the status of second-class citizens, an undesired caste, and forced them to work in the Reman dilithium mines. (Star Trek: Nemesis)

I can't seem to find a canon answer to whether Remans are offshoots, mutants, genetic anomalies, native to Remus(also called Romii) or what. Oh well. Back to Andorians.

[Darth Lucifer]

Here's something I forgot to point out when I saw "The Aenar." If their telepathy is so powerful, then why didn't the girl's brother (the pilot) know that the Romulans were full of shit? Oh wait. We don't get into other species heads without permission.

The girl did it to Shran. Out of curiosity.

Their leader did it to Captain Archer.

It just seems to me that what's his nuts would have thrown his inhibitions out the window considering he was on a path of revenge; The Romulans told him he was the last of his race. He should have confirmed it.

I'm glad Brian Thompson (the Romulan Admiral) blasted him dead on the spot.

I swear, the writing just gets worse and worse...

[Lord Revan]

Here's something I forgot to point out when I saw "The Aenar." If their telepathy is so powerful, then why didn't the girl's brother (the pilot) know that the Romulans were full of shit? Oh wait. We don't get into other species heads without permission.

The girl did it to Shran. Out of curiosity.

Their leader did it to Captain Archer.

It just seems to me that what's his nuts would have thrown his inhibitions out the window considering he was on a path of revenge; The Romulans told him he was the last of his race. He should have confirmed it.

well Romulans are probaly telepathtic themselves (We do know that all Vulcan are).

[Darth Lucifer]

well Romulans are probaly telepathtic themselves (We do know that all Vulcan are).

There's no canon evidence of that. Unless you know something I don't. I'll be back...need to look into this...

[Lord Revan]

well Romulans are probaly telepathtic themselves (We do know that all Vulcan are).

There's no canon evidence of that. Unless you know something I don't. I'll be back...need to look into this...

there's tons of evidence of Vulcans being telepathtic ("My mind to your mind...") and no Canon evidence of Romulans being different (Romulans are Vulcans)

[Spanky The Dolphin]

It could be that Romulans might not be as telepathic as Vulcans, since they left before (or right at the start of) the enlightenment period.

[Darth Lucifer]

...and no Canon evidence of Romulans being different (Romulans are Vulcans)

I meant just the part about Romulans. I know Vulcans are telepathic. But where is the canon evidence that [Romulans] ARE telepathic? [Or that they "are Vulcans."...whoops didn't mean to snip it when I inserted "Romulans]

I'm currently searching for any reference at all that they may be telepathic, so we can go on more than just an assumption. Romulans may very well be telepathic to some degree or not at all, but so far, no canon evidence has been produced either way to prove or disprove it. And since you can't prove a negative...the burden of proof is yours. Help ya look for it though

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I meant just the part about Romulans. I know Vulcans are telepathic. But where is the canon evidence that they ARE telepathic? Or that they "are Vulcans."

"Balance of Terror," "The Enterprise Incident," and various other episodes.

[Lord Revan]

It could be that Romulans might not be as telepathic as Vulcans, since they left before (or right at the start of) the enlightenment period.

it depends on much Vulcans telepathtic skills/abilities are genetic (and not result of trainning) and on when that trainning began (Surak said that mind-melds are legacy of all vulcans and there are telepathtic weapons).

[Lord Revan]

All Romulan stuff is anyway off-topic for this thread (there's thread about The Romulans and their relationship with Vulcans.

[Darth Lucifer]

All Romulan stuff is anyway off-topic for this thread (there's thread about The Romulans and their relationship with Vulcans.

Thanks for the link...

[brianeyci]

no Canon evidence of Romulans being different (Romulans are Vulcans)

Yes, if Romulans were really that different from Vulcans, Baran would have found out his second was a Vulcan rather than a Romulan mercenary just by scanning her. If Baran was smart enough to use the pain device and kill the last master, he's smart enough to scan someone. Maybe the differences are so slight that it takes a detailed scan to tell the difference, but as it is no canon evidence Romulans are different than Vulcans.

Brian