Voyager, Species 8472, rank and wtf

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-12-21 03:51pm

I was digging around through some old VHS tapes and realized I had a couple Voyager episodes taped. I watched a few minutes from one episode and some things on it didn't make sense.

Remember the one where Voyager finds a mock up of Starfleet in space that Species 8472 created? It even has uniformed officers acting like humans. In order to investigate, Janeway sends Chicotard down to blend in. Now, all the 8472 dudes look JUST like Starfleet. They have the uniforms, they have the ranks, and they speak English. Here's the thing: Chicotard gets there and he doesn't have a normal rank. He's wearing that wannabe Commander insignia that Janeway gave him to show that he's like an unofficial Starfleet officer. Wouldn't they notice that? If I were one of them, I would have said, "hey what's up with your rank insignia?"

Could it be that details matter so little to the Voyager people that they didn't even bother? How can this be explained?

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2004-12-21 03:59pm

Superman wrote:I was digging around through some old VHS tapes and realized I had a couple Voyager episodes taped. I watched a few minutes from one episode and some things on it didn't make sense.

Remember the one where Voyager finds a mock up of Starfleet in space that Species 8472 created? It even has uniformed officers acting like humans. In order to investigate, Janeway sends Chicotard down to blend in. Now, all the 8472 dudes look JUST like Starfleet. They have the uniforms, they have the ranks, and they speak English. Here's the thing: Chicotard gets there and he doesn't have a normal rank. He's wearing that wannabe Commander insignia that Janeway gave him to show that he's like an unofficial Starfleet officer. Wouldn't they notice that? If I were one of them, I would have said, "hey what's up with your rank insignia?"

Could it be that details matter so little to the Voyager people that they didn't even bother? How can this be explained?

Probability #1: I believe that's a field commission insigna. Thus it wouldn't be improbable that someone who received a field commission from a captain would be milling around SF headquarters.

Probability #2: Species 8472 hadn't yet had direct contact with the folks on earth. If it wasn't a field commission insigna then S8472 wouldn't know any better regardless.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-12-21 04:02pm

Probability #1: I believe that's a field commission insigna. Thus it wouldn't be improbable that someone who received a field commission from a captain would be milling around SF headquarters.

That could be it, but we've never seen it before in any way, shape or form. The fact that it was an extremely touchy recon mission should have been enough for the Voyager folks to give him a real insignia.

Probability #2: Species 8472 hadn't yet had direct contact with the folks on earth. If it wasn't a field commission insigna then S8472 wouldn't know any better regardless.

But he was there with them on their own simulation. They created it. They would figure this one out.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-12-21 06:15pm

Superman wrote:
Probability #1: I believe that's a field commission insigna. Thus it wouldn't be improbable that someone who received a field commission from a captain would be milling around SF headquarters.
That could be it, but we've never seen it before in any way, shape or form. The fact that it was an extremely touchy recon mission should have been enough for the Voyager folks to give him a real insignia.

Whatever for? Since Lameway CANNOT make it a permanent commission, that would be a purely cosmetic measure.

Probability #2: Species 8472 hadn't yet had direct contact with the folks on earth. If it wasn't a field commission insigna then S8472 wouldn't know any better regardless.
But he was there with them on their own simulation. They created it. They would figure this one out.

Why? They knew just enough to simulate SFA, and did so explicitely to learn more about the humans. How do you know they were intimately familiar with the way SF rank insignia work? Even if they did get all of the ones in their simulation right (did they?) does not mean they have complete knowledge of how SF insignia work.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-12-21 06:17pm

Whatever for? Since Lameway CANNOT make it a permanent commission, that would be a purely cosmetic measure.

THAT'S THE POINT! It's to blend in more effectively! He had to trick them to make them think that he was part of the simulation! They very well should have given him a regular insignia for that mission!

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-12-21 06:21pm

Perhaps they don't have perfect memory and coordination between all the alien guys about all the wardrobe decisions they made.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-12-21 06:29pm

Superman wrote:
Whatever for? Since Lameway CANNOT make it a permanent commission, that would be a purely cosmetic measure.
THAT'S THE POINT! It's to blend in more effectively! He had to trick them to make them think that he was part of the simulation! They very well should have given him a regular insignia for that mission!

Okay, my bad. I hadn't realised you were talking about giving him real insignia specifically for that mission. I wholeheartedly agree.
But then, what was the last time Lameway and her crew made a smart decision?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-12-21 06:33pm

Yeah, why not minimize all risks of not blending in? Why blaze on in there with some oddball rank insignia?

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2004-12-21 07:20pm

Not paying attention to details is the way spies are caught.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-12-21 07:45pm

Well, without more info I can't really know how precise the simulation was. I'm only starting to get episodes where Seven Eleven got in the crew and is starting to blend in.

But honestly, if they can tell if some insignia rank is out of place, they can perfectly tell that they didn't put that guy with the tattooed face there.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-12-21 08:01pm

But honestly, if they can tell if some insignia rank is out of place, they can perfectly tell that they didn't put that guy with the tattooed face there.

Another strategic error.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-12-22 09:33pm

Actually, I had a thought about that.

Considering a member of Species 8472 had seen Chakoty before the withdrawl to fluidic space (on the Borg cube when Harry got sliced), and that the assumes Starfleet was hostile...

They MIGHT have assumed the rank insigna and tattoo had some kinda of significants, like a permanent rank tattoo or battle commemoration

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-22 11:14pm

Why is it assumed Species 8472 would be so familar with Starfleet insignia that they catch something so trivial? The purpose of the simulation was to learn to imitate humans, not simulate Starfleet Command 100% accurately. Janeway even commented earlier that Species 8472's intel wasn't very accurate. She mentioned near the end they didn't simulate a bar she knew of in the area. It's very obvious Species 8472 was quite shady on the details. And like I said, they probably weren't all that concerned about the trivial things since the purpose of the simulation was to learn to imitate humans.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-22 11:16pm

Solauren wrote: They MIGHT have assumed the rank insigna and tattoo had some kinda of significants, like a permanent rank tattoo or battle commemoration

Or instead weren't as concerned about such trivial details since their purpose was to learn imitating humans accurately, not Starfleet Command.

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Voyager, Species 8472, rank and wtf

Voyager, Species 8472, rank and wtf

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