Battle of the ST Omnipotent

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2004-12-17 01:30pm

I was thinking. In a hypothetical battle between the ST omnipotent who would prevail and why?

*The Q

*Kevin Uxbridge (remember he committed genocide against an entire species by simply thinking about it)

*The Prophets

*The Pahraeths (sp?)

*The Founders

who else?

I say of the ones I've listed, I'd put my $$ on Kevin Uxbridge because he's already committed genocide when he got angry. We've never seen the Q do as such although they're a strong 2nd.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-12-17 01:37pm

The Founders aren't omnipotent, so they'll get stomped. Eh, I vote Q.

montypython · Post by **montypython** » 2004-12-17 01:39pm

Don't forget the Metrons or the Organians.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-17 01:43pm

or Trelane

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2004-12-17 01:45pm

frigidmagi wrote:The Founders aren't omnipotent, so they'll get stomped. Eh, I vote Q.

True, but they're viewed as gods by the Vorta so I included them. They would get stomped.

Why the Q over Uxbridge?

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-12-17 02:04pm

Numbers. There are more Q then Uxbridge and I'm assuming they're strong enough has a group not to just fade awaw because he thinks they should.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-12-17 02:08pm

frigidmagi wrote:There are more Q then Uxbridge

Based on what?

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-17 02:09pm

because Uxbridge is just one person

Douwd (Uxbridge's species) vs Q would be another matter, perhaps.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-12-17 02:28pm

Douwd? What the hell have they done except impersonate a piss-weak starship?

Q take this. The Prophets don't do much outside of the Wormhole, the Founders shouldn't even be here, Uxbridge is just one guy, and the Traveller was at his best outside our Galaxy.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-17 02:33pm

Douwd? What the hell have they done except impersonate a piss-weak starship?

Uxbridge is a Douwd, who killed an entire civilization. I don't know which Douwd you are refering to, but I'm refering to this one:

Douwd
Episode: TNG 151 - The Survivors

An immortal race of pure energy, capable of creating disguises and false surroundings by manipulating matter and energy instantaneously-as does the one who took human form on Earth under the name of Kevin Uxbridge, later discovered in 2366. Uxbridge carried guilt over the instantenous elimination of the 50-billion Husnock race.

from ST.com

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2004-12-17 02:53pm

SirNitram wrote:Douwd? What the hell have they done except impersonate a piss-weak starship?

Q take this. The Prophets don't do much outside of the Wormhole, the Founders shouldn't even be here, Uxbridge is just one guy, and the Traveller was at his best outside our Galaxy.

The Q were able to harm each other and kill fellow Q. How an omnipotent being would do that is beyond me, but it seems that the Q rarely do such where as UxBridge killed 50 Billion.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-12-17 02:54pm

This could be due to the fact that the Q have a pretty rigid law sturcture.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-17 02:59pm

Tommy J wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Douwd? What the hell have they done except impersonate a piss-weak starship?

Q take this. The Prophets don't do much outside of the Wormhole, the Founders shouldn't even be here, Uxbridge is just one guy, and the Traveller was at his best outside our Galaxy.
The Q were able to harm each other and kill fellow Q. How an omnipotent being would do that is beyond me, but it seems that the Q rarely do such where as UxBridge killed 50 Billion.

it's called hyperbole. i'm sure humans seem omnipotent to an ant, but we can still kill each other off.

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2004-12-17 03:08pm

Darth_Zod wrote:
Tommy J wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Douwd? What the hell have they done except impersonate a piss-weak starship?

Q take this. The Prophets don't do much outside of the Wormhole, the Founders shouldn't even be here, Uxbridge is just one guy, and the Traveller was at his best outside our Galaxy.
The Q were able to harm each other and kill fellow Q. How an omnipotent being would do that is beyond me, but it seems that the Q rarely do such where as UxBridge killed 50 Billion.
it's called hyperbole. i'm sure humans seem omnipotent to an ant, but we can still kill each other off.

That's an excellent way of looking at it. So that begs the question, how would seemingly omnipotent beings rate other such beings of different species. In other words, how would the Q view Kevin Uxbridge? To further your metaphor, would Kevin U be viewed as an Ant, a Dog, an Ape or an Equal?

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2004-12-17 03:13pm

The Q are not omniptent.

Death Wish

QUINN:
But you mustn't think of us as omnipotent, no matter what the Continuum would like you to believe. You and your ship seem incredibly powerful to life-forms without your technical expertise. It's no different with us. We may appear omnipotent to you, but believe me, we're not.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-12-17 03:37pm

Bellator wrote:or Trelane

According to the ST "EU", Trelane is a Q. It's in the book Q-Squared. Peter David kicks so much ass...

Also, there are the Greek gods from Who Mourns For...er Something. But I think they are covered in a New Frontier Book that I haven't read yet, so please mark spoilers if you're going to discuss it.

Anyway the E-nil pwned Apollo, so I guess they're not up to Q levels.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-12-17 03:38pm

Tommy J wrote:
frigidmagi wrote:The Founders aren't omnipotent, so they'll get stomped. Eh, I vote Q.
True, but they're viewed as gods by the Vorta so I included them. They would get stomped.

Why the Q over Uxbridge?

Uxbridge may have committed genocide, but Q was fully prepared to wipe humanity (and probably several other alpha quadrant races) completely out of existence in All Good Things.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-17 03:39pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Bellator wrote:or Trelane
According to the ST "EU", Trelane is a Q. It's in the book Q-Squared. Peter David kicks so much ass...

Also, there are the Greek gods from Who Mourns For...er Something. But I think they are covered in a New Frontier Book that I haven't read yet, so please mark spoilers if you're going to discuss it.

Anyway the E-nil pwned Apollo, so I guess they're not up to Q levels.

except unlike star wars, ST's "eu" is not canon in any fashion whatsoever. *shrug*

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-12-17 04:31pm

Tommy J wrote:I was thinking. In a hypothetical battle between the ST omnipotent who would prevail and why?

*The Q

*Kevin Uxbridge (remember he committed genocide against an entire species by simply thinking about it)

*The Prophets

*The Pahraeths (sp?)

*The Founders

who else?

I say of the ones I've listed, I'd put my $$ on Kevin Uxbridge because he's already committed genocide when he got angry. We've never seen the Q do as such although they're a strong 2nd.

The founders aren't omnipotent, we've seen lots of them die.
The prophets? Pfft. They're ONLY omnipotent in the wormhole. Sit outside the wormhole, and they can't do a thing. They could only destroy the Dominion ships that were inside the wormhole, not the ones outside, and the one 'prophet' who left the wormhole had only enough power that after SEVERAL MINUTES of charging up it would take two of them to destroy DS9. Nothing compared to Q.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-12-17 04:35pm

Darth_Zod wrote:
except unlike star wars, ST's "eu" is not canon in any fashion whatsoever. *shrug*

That's why I put it in quotes.

It's still a damn shame that Voy and Ent are canon but the great novels are not.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-17 04:41pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Darth_Zod wrote:
except unlike star wars, ST's "eu" is not canon in any fashion whatsoever. *shrug*
That's why I put it in quotes.

It's still a damn shame that Voy and Ent are canon but the great novels are not.

true, but some of the crap they publish in trek novels is worse than enterprise or voyager have ever been at their lowest. . .like bringing back captain kirk through borg technology to fight the federation in an alliance with the romulans. . .ugh.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-17 05:04pm

Luzifer's right hand wrote:The Q are not omniptent.

Death Wish
QUINN:
But you mustn't think of us as omnipotent, no matter what the Continuum would like you to believe. You and your ship seem incredibly powerful to life-forms without your technical expertise. It's no different with us. We may appear omnipotent to you, but believe me, we're not.

If Q quotes are valid, then we shouldn't ignore the one from STTNG "True Q":

Q wrote: "To put it simply, we're omnipotent. There's nothing, nothing we can't do."

What makes this quote interesting is that Q was talking to Amanda Rogers who was just beginning to discover her Q abilities. He does specify that he is putting it "simply", indicating it's a little more complicated than simply "omnipotent" (obviously the direct translation is not true). But his willingness to tell Amanda the limits of her powers is virtually only her imagination when she has the capability to test that assertion is not something to be handily dismissed IMO.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-17 05:11pm

Robert Walper wrote:
What makes this quote interesting is that Q was talking to Amanda Rogers who was just beginning to discover her Q abilities. He does specify that he is putting it "simply", indicating it's a little more complicated than simply "omnipotent" (obviously the direct translation is not true). But his willingness to tell Amanda the limits of her powers is virtually only her imagination when she has the capability to test that assertion is not something to be handily dismissed IMO.

he could have simply been putting it in terms that she would understand. either that or giving her additional incentives to come to the continuum as opposed to remaining with the humans. the fact that he's been willing to lie in the past doesn't exactly rule this out.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-17 05:53pm

Darth_Zod wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:
What makes this quote interesting is that Q was talking to Amanda Rogers who was just beginning to discover her Q abilities. He does specify that he is putting it "simply", indicating it's a little more complicated than simply "omnipotent" (obviously the direct translation is not true). But his willingness to tell Amanda the limits of her powers is virtually only her imagination when she has the capability to test that assertion is not something to be handily dismissed IMO.
he could have simply been putting it in terms that she would understand. either that or giving her additional incentives to come to the continuum as opposed to remaining with the humans. the fact that he's been willing to lie in the past doesn't exactly rule this out.

Except him explaining this in no way prevented her from testing his assertion. Since she could, him lying is hardly going to accomplish his objective, which was to get her to willingly join the Continuum.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-17 06:23pm

Robert Walper wrote: Except him explaining this in no way prevented her from testing his assertion. Since she could, him lying is hardly going to accomplish his objective, which was to get her to willingly join the Continuum.

the girl in question had been brought up as a human for most of her life. naturally what she is capable of doing with her powers are going to be somewhat limited by having existed as human for most of that time. so it's not as though she'd have the icognitive ability to come up with a fraction of what Q was capable of.. who'd supposedly been doing this for centuries.

if it wasn't necessarily a lie, it's possible it was simply a hyperbole as to what they could do. since human imagination would still be limited in scope compared to someone from the continuum.

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