DS9 non phasers

dragon · Post by **dragon** » 2004-12-16 05:48am

Ok was watching Who mourns for Morn and noticed a thing about one of the weapon. When quark dive inside the container it was pierced by an energy beam that had the look of electricty. It pierced both sides and left scorch marks. Now was wondering what other types of weapons that seem to have better penetration value than phasers and disrupters. I can only think of 2. This wepaon and the weapon Quark demonstarted when hes an arms dealer.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-12-16 10:56am

Arguably Worf's isomagnetic disintegrator from Insurrection. A ground hit from it knocked four Son'a on their asses. I don't recall hand phasers causing explosions quite that powerful.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-12-16 11:00am

Since you didn't clarify that you were looking for sheer firepower but possibly the ability to simply go through solid objects to do damage, I'd also mention the TR-116 (the slug-throwing DS9 rifle that used a transporter to deliver the bullet through solid objects).

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-12-16 12:58pm

The tommy gun in First Contact. It was holographic and still had more penetration power than a phaser.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-12-16 01:36pm

From phasers.net, the TR-116 is actually the Breen disruptor rifle sold by the arms dealer,

Phasers.net wrote:In the DS9 episode "Business as Usual," made nearly two years prior to "Field of Fire," one of the weapons sold by Hagath is quite plainly the TR-116 prop, but with components in different shades of grey (as opposed to the uniform gunmetal of the Starfleet weapon). This has now been revealed to be a Breen disruptor rifle (since as everyone knows, in Star Trek: Generations it's revealed they're one of three Alpha Quadrant races to use such weapons). With the appearance of the Breen in the "Final Chapter" of DS9, we get the chance to see the refrigerated warriors carrying the weapon themselves.

Also,

DS9 Business as... wrote:
QUARK
The Breen CRM-one-fourteen works
equally well against moving
vessels or surface emplacements.
It's guaranteed to cut through
reactive armor in the six-to-
fifteen centimeter range, and
shields up to four-point-six
gigajoules.

No, it wasn't some sort of ship weapon, it was from the script a "bazooka" sized weapon, though in the end I believe the "bazooka" ended up being the TR-116 prop.

So what the hell does this mean. Out-of-universe, they were lazy and didn't create a new prop. In universe, SF adapted the chassis of the Breen disruptor rifle for the TR-116, so they have the replicator pattern/designs of the Breen disruptor rifle. The Breen disruptor rifle sounds a lot more impressive than a phaser, able to cut through armor and fire through powerful shields.

DS9 Return to Grace wrote:
KIRA
This is a standard issue,
Cardassian phase-disruptor rifle.
It has a four-point-seven
megajoule power capacity... three
millisecond recharge and two beam
settings.

So wtf. Starfleet has a weapon that's a whole order of magnitude more powerful than phasers, yet sticks with phasers. Production of Breen Disruptor rifles wouldn't be that huge a problem given that they can replicate a TR-116. Unless the Breen Disruptor rifle is a one-shot-wonder (I don't think think so, we see normal Breen carrying around this rifle), or there's some other problems I don't see. Breen Disruptor rifles can also apparently cut through thick reactive armor, and phasers have trouble cutting through a Cardassian blast door.

<edit> one more point, Kira states later that Federation rifles are less powerful than the Cardassian disruptor rifles. </edit>

Brian

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-12-16 05:07pm

brianeyci wrote:From phasers.net, the TR-116 is actually the Breen disruptor rifle sold by the arms dealer,

The Daystrom Institute Technical Library, like the Quark quote, refers to the bazooka thing as the Breen CRM-114. And to the slug-thrower as the TR-116. Or does the above quote simply refer to the props being the same?

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-12-16 05:11pm

The quote refers to the prop.

Out-of-universe, we can say that they were lazy and used the same prop.

In-universe, we say Starfleet was lazy and based the TR-116 on the CRM-114 chassis, which means that Starfleet probably had the replicator pattern for the Breen Disruptor Rifle, which means they have a weapon in their arsenal an entire order of magnitude more powerful than phasers and they keep using phasers. At least the Breen weapon doesn't have a weakness to packing crates.

Brian

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-16 05:14pm

brianeyci wrote:The quote refers to the prop.

Out-of-universe, we can say that they were lazy and used the same prop.

In-universe, we say Starfleet was lazy and based the TR-116 on the CRM-114 chassis, which means that Starfleet probably had the replicator pattern for the Breen Disruptor Rifle, which means they have a weapon in their arsenal an entire order of magnitude more powerful than phasers and they keep using phasers. At least the Breen weapon doesn't have a weakness to packing crates.

Brian

Perhaps Federation forces simply have a preference for versatility rather than brute power.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-12-16 05:31pm

Yes. Cardassian disruptor rifles only have two settings. Maybe the Breen rifle doesn't have a non-lethal setting.

Still having a weapon that can shoot down a moving target, and presumably the weapon could be used as an anti-air weapon (it can target moving stuff as well as stationary targets, although he might have been bragging) and is powerful enough to shoot down shuttlecraft is pretty formidable, an advantage hard to ignore. Perhaps the eyesight on the TR-116 is actually part of the functionality of the Breen disruptor rifle, and inside a Breen's helmet there is some sort of HUD. This makes sense when considering Quark says that the rifle can shoot down moving vessels as well as stationary emplacements. SF's TR-116 sight could be a poor attempt at trying to emulate this tracking, trying to interface with the Breen rifle originally designed for use with the Breen helmet.

Brian

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-12-16 11:04pm

Robert Walper wrote:
brianeyci wrote:The quote refers to the prop.

Out-of-universe, we can say that they were lazy and used the same prop.

In-universe, we say Starfleet was lazy and based the TR-116 on the CRM-114 chassis, which means that Starfleet probably had the replicator pattern for the Breen Disruptor Rifle, which means they have a weapon in their arsenal an entire order of magnitude more powerful than phasers and they keep using phasers. At least the Breen weapon doesn't have a weakness to packing crates.

Brian
Perhaps Federation forces simply have a preference for versatility rather than brute power.

Being near-useless in multiple applications isn't versatility. Federation forces mainly have a preference for glossing over the fact that they're a military.