Does "Dear Doctor" deliver a good or bad ethical m

[frigidmagi]

For example, a medic/doctor in the US military, is his first duty towards the oath, and how does he resolve conflicts?

Medical personalle are not combatents and are under no requirments to engage hostile forces, expect in protection of their lives or the lives of those under their care. They are expected to treat the wounded of both sides, providing the wounded aren't still hostile. Of course if you're treating guys from the other side, they're going to be prisoners.

Example: Corpsmen Joe is treating about 4 wounded men, 1 of them from the enemy force, the BG, having been improperly searched, whips out a gun and threathens Joe and the other 3. At this point Joe is under no obilgation to aide or comfort the BG and is legally able to blow his head off.

[NecronLord]

I think Dante would havesome choice words for Phlox and Archer.

Never mind him. Try McCoy.

There. My head is now nicely filled with the image of Kirk beating the crap out of Archer for being such a complete and utter asstard. I suggest the rest of you all start imagining this too, as it is a pleasant image.

And as for "this is the guy Kirk grew up hearing stories about" - I take it Kirk was meant to grow up thinking 'holy shit, I could do a vastly better job than this fucker.'

[NecronLord]

Actually. Now I think about it, it reminds me of my friend's reaction to Nemesis "So... remind me again... These troll guys are slaves, who've managed to overthrow their captors... and Picard's going on about how many Romulans they killed in doing so? Would his reaction to Spartacus be the same: 'How many Romans did you kill for your freedom Mr Spartacus?' I guess it's alright, as these guys are orcs, and thus we should have no feeling for them..." *rolling of eyes*

It saddens me that Modern Trek's morality is so contemptible.

[Petrosjko]

In any event, how is the oath viewed in RL? For example, a medic/doctor in the US military, is his first duty towards the oath, and how does he resolve conflicts?

My son just finished medic training in the army, which included infantry qualification. His description of the job? He is trained to do what it takes to get to his patients, fight to defend them as needed, stabilize them and get them into the hands of the doctors. Anybody threatening his patients or impeding him on the way to them runs the risk of 5.56mm perforation because he has not taken a 'do no harm' oath.

Or an example that I can remember, doctors being required to report gunshot wounds in Canada to police and the controversy it generated/is generating (I'm not sure where this issue is now).

That's a standard procedure in the states, and I'm not aware of any controversy regarding it. Some doctors may regard it as a violation of doctor/patient confidentiality, but that law has been on the books for a good while and hasn't raised much furor down here.

[Kuja]

I think Dante would havesome choice words for Phlox and Archer.

Which one?

The only one.

[Darth Wong]

I have no medical background, but I can certainly say that the engineering code of ethics is very clear on the necessity for action to prevent harm. Your first duty is to public safety, and in an interstellar society, that would include sentient species on other worlds.

Who wrote this worthless piece of garbage episode anyway? What other episodes has this morally devoid individual written?

PS. It is worth noting that, as Patrick mentioned, this disease of "let nature take its course" ethics is not a new phenomenon in Star Trek. It's just being handled in such a hamfisted and unambiguously positive way now that it produces a much more profound sense of revulsion.

[Durandal]

I think Dante would havesome choice words for Phlox and Archer.

Which one?

The only one.

Damn straight, and he'd be pissed because he's not even supposed to be working today.

[brianeyci]

That's a standard procedure in the states, and I'm not aware of any controversy regarding it. Some doctors may regard it as a violation of doctor/patient confidentiality, but that law has been on the books for a good while and hasn't raised much furor down here.

For anybody who's interested more, did a little searching on CBC and google and found http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/06/23/ca ... tals040623 I was wrong it involved Ontario (a province in Canada) not all of Canada. Not sure where the legislation is right now, probably dragging its heels.

<edited to fix url>

Brian

[Tsyroc]

PS. It is worth noting that, as Patrick mentioned, this disease of "let nature take its course" ethics is not a new phenomenon in Star Trek. It's just being handled in such a hamfisted and unambiguously positive way now that it produces a much more profound sense of revulsion.

I don't think it's something new to our society in general either.

How many people write off doing anything about societies that oppress women in the real world because it's part of the religion or something like that which we are all supposed to respect because of diversity or some other crap?

I also think that part of the non-interference is a backlash against the colonial times when the big powers were trying to "bring civilization" to whatever country they found themselves being interested in.

For some reason policies and attitudes that develope seem to be overly black or white. Bad things happened while trying to "civilize" less advanced societies so it is better to just let them run on their own no mater what happens. It's really a selfish and lazy way to do things which I would think that anything Trek would/should be above.

What bugs me about this Enterprise episode is that Phlox is writing off the suffering and deaths of people in the hear and now because of what might happen in the future. He doesn't know that the one race won't find a cure. He doesn't know that they won't evolve enough that this genetic problem won't go away on it's own. He doesn't know that the Manc will be able to progress much on their own. All he knows is that he has a cure to a disease that is slowly and painfully killing a large group of people.

If the dominant species is going to be gone in about 200 years why wouldn't any local spacefaring opportunist show up in 150 years or so and help themselves? Perfectly decent planet with some development that could just use some refurbishment and some upgrading. Plus there's this nice little race living there that's been proven to be made up of good workers. I bet the Orions or Ferengi would love them.

[brianeyci]

The forced "evolution" idea has always been a load of shit to me, especially the idea that humanity will become better through some genetic manipulation. We will do what we always do -- design gadgets for ourselves. Why should the future include genetically engineered babies with super eyesight, or more fantastic some sort of super-race, when we can keep making cool toys. Put it another way, why would humanity genetically engineer our brains have better memory when we can keep designing PDA's. Weeding out weaknesses to certain deseases is one thing, but making Übermenschen is another.

Brian

[Lord Zentei]

Who wrote this worthless piece of garbage episode anyway? What other episodes has this morally devoid individual written?

It was written by Marie Jacquemetton & Andre Jacquemetton and directed by James A. Contner. The episode first aired 1/23/2002.

They also wrote "Breaking the Ice"which aired 11/7/2001, a particularly dull and insipid episode, which involved the Enterprise crew exploring a comet and building a snowman on it. A Vulcan ship kept them under watch while being stuck up assholes. T'Pol mulled over wether to sacrifice her career with Starfleet for an arranged marriage. The Enterprise crew answered some questions from fourth graders on Earth, including one about space toilets. That's about it. Oh, wait: there was an incident when a couple of major characters were in peril, but that was hardly exiting, since major characters always survive (Archer swallows his pride long enough to accept aid from the stuck-up Vulcans).

You can see the ST: hypertext review here.

They may have written other episodes, but if they did, they were not in the first season. You can't pay me enough to watch the other seasons.

[NecronLord]

PS. It is worth noting that, as Patrick mentioned, this disease of "let nature take its course" ethics is not a new phenomenon in Star Trek. It's just being handled in such a hamfisted and unambiguously positive way now that it produces a much more profound sense of revulsion.

At least back in ST2 they had a reason. It would only be a matter of time before Evil Starfleet Admiral of the Week #19234 decided to drop a Genesis Device on Kronos.

[Lord Zentei]

The forced "evolution" idea has always been a load of shit to me, especially the idea that humanity will become better through some genetic manipulation. We will do what we always do -- design gadgets for ourselves. Why should the future include genetically engineered babies with super eyesight, or more fantastic some sort of super-race, when we can keep making cool toys. Put it another way, why would humanity genetically engineer our brains have better memory when we can keep designing PDA's. Weeding out weaknesses to certain deseases is one thing, but making Übermenschen is another.

Brian

Uh, no offense, but what does that have to do with the episode in question?

[Crom]

I refused to watch Enterprise because I thought it would be a bad show, in the vein of Voyager. But now it strikes me as horribly offensive. I want nothing to do with it.

The thing is, my roommate has been downloading and watching episodes. He insists that it is an interesting show. Maybe I should direct him to this episode and see what he thinks. If he still likes it after that, maybe I should just move out.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

PS. It is worth noting that, as Patrick mentioned, this disease of "let nature take its course" ethics is not a new phenomenon in Star Trek. It's just being handled in such a hamfisted and unambiguously positive way now that it produces a much more profound sense of revulsion.

At least back in ST2 they had a reason. It would only be a matter of time before Evil Starfleet Admiral of the Week #19234 decided to drop a Genesis Device on Kronos.

By God! Now that I would pay to see!

What point is a big budget sci-fi cold war without the WMDs?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Which one?

The only one.

Damn straight, and he'd be pissed because he's not even supposed to be working today.

I had to ask because I honestly wasn't sure.

Besides the fact that I still really don't get it, unless it's a reference to the film's RotJ discussion...

[Lord Zentei]

OK, I have sifted through the headers for the reviews of the second through fourth seasons of Enterprise and it appears that the Jacquemettons have not written any episodes after "Dear Doctor". Dare I hope that Brannon and Braga have an iota of ethics and decency in them after all? If so why did they approve the "Dear Doctor" episode in the first place? Were the Jacquemettons fired after Paramount received a sufficient number of complaints or are they still on standby ready to write yet another nightmare?

I'm currently mulling over wether to give the series a second chance...

[Kuja]

I had to ask because I honestly wasn't sure.

Besides the fact that I still really don't get it, unless it's a reference to the film's RotJ discussion...

Haven't you read The Inferno?

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Yes I have. That's why he was the first Dante I thought you were refering to, but figured you could have also meant Dante Hicks.

[dworkin]

Similar to Alyeska's idea.

A fitting sequel would be the new species getting warp ships and declaring war on the Feds for smugly watching as their mentors and caretakers who were guiding them to sapience died out from something they discovered was curable by the warp cabable equivalent of two asprins.

Alien Cmdr - 'Why did you do this? Why did you not help them? Centuries of barbarism, war, religion, genocide all totally unneccessary because you could of helped the Elders.'

Fed Cmdr - 'What? You were slaves. We saw that you could be free if the Elders died out!'

AC - 'We were their students, their children!'

FC - 'But you were being denied rights ineliable to all sientient life.'

AC - 'Would you let a child pilot one of your spaceships, Earthman? Do you not restrict your young from certain activities?'

FC - 'I don't see..'

AC - 'Irrellevant! You stood by idly while our parents died in agony. Now you will know pain!'

Alien ships open giant cans of whoop ass on Feds. Would be a laugh if the TNG/VGR crew had to deal with it.

FC "But that was centuries ago, what has that to do with the present?"
AC 'Everything!'

[Lord Zentei]

You should write a fanfic on that.

[Durandal]

Damn straight, and he'd be pissed because he's not even supposed to be working today.

I had to ask because I honestly wasn't sure.

Besides the fact that I still really don't get it, unless it's a reference to the film's RotJ discussion...

It's a Clerks reference. Dante wasn't supposed to be working the night night the movie took place on. And in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, a customer asks, "Are you even supposed to be here today?", and Dante replies, "Don't get me started."

[Kuja]

Similar to Alyeska's idea.

That is a GREAT idea!

[Gil Hamilton]

And what is to keep the Valakians from breaking their part of the bargain? Once they get the cure, they could very well turn around and reenslave the Menk.

Just because they are receiving the cure doesn't mean they are producing it. Secondly, regular check-ups and strongly hinting that Earth would "liberate" the hell out of them if they went back to a slave based economy is enough.