TNG era Tech advancement

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-12-08 08:23pm

Do we have any canon or even novel level examples of the disparity between TOS era tech and TNG tech. For instance just how much more powerful are TNG era ships as opposed to TOS era starships. Does the fact that we see many TOS era starships still tooling around in TNG era indicate a certain level of stagnation in starship tech or is it simply a TOS hull that once you look under the hood looks nothing like its earlier incarnation?

How about Medical tech? Engineering? etc.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-12-08 08:34pm

The episode with the alternate timeline with Federation at war with the Klingons strongly implies that there is a considerable tech difference.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-12-08 08:37pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:The episode with the alternate timeline with Federation at war with the Klingons strongly implies that there is a considerable tech difference.

Problem with that example is that one could argue that since the Federation is on a war footing for decades her offensive and defensive tech should be higher than what we find in the original time line.

And even then at one point Yar says that their shields are 50% more effective than the Ent-C's. I don't find that number to be all that impressive considering the time difference.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2004-12-08 08:52pm

Well, the computer talks more nicely.

The warp drives go at least a little faster.

Holodecks seem to be enough cheaper to install everywhere.

They caught up with late 20th century technology in respect to communications miniaturization and computer interfaces.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2004-12-08 08:55pm

The Enterprise-D runs into an 80-year-old Klingon battle cruiser (or possibly BOP, I forget which) in "The Emissary" and is implied to be far superior to it. The biggest problem in dealing with it was to get the Klingons to surrender without killing them.

On the other hand, Voyager runs into a Klingon ship from the same era and has trouble with it before breaking its cloak or predicting its attack pattern or something.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-12-08 08:59pm

Destructionator XIII wrote:
In the normal timeline, the transporters work faster and seem more dependable.

Except thanks to Enterprise we now have transporters that are super fast, than become crap in TOS and back to super-effiecent in TNG.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-12-08 09:05pm

I think we should throwout the Voyager one as well. TNG consistently shows improvement of existing TOS technologies, but little development of new ones.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2004-12-08 09:51pm

Well the E-D sickbay has a lot of new gizmos like that combination scanner / sterilization field generator they put over people on the beds at times. Some new neuro devices like the cortical stimulators which they use from time to time as a defibulator for the brain.

Its mainly in the non-military areas that we see a lot of dramatic advancement. The quantum torpedo seems to be the first significant application of the Federation's technological base for military purposes since TMP. The rest with the possible exception of burst fire torpedo tubes are evolutionary when compared to TOS / TMP tech, not really evolutionary as you would expect when comparing technology a century apart.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-12-08 09:58pm

In TOS, McCoy once mentioned that we still couldn't cure the common cold.

In TNG, Crusher made an off-hand remark about how they'd cured the common cold some time ago.

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2004-12-09 12:47am

I don't consider Enterprise canon. Its too inconsistant to be seriously applied to a comparison between series.

*clap* *Clap* *Clap* *Clap*

Good for you i don't either. To me ToS is the first

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-12-09 01:13am

Destructionator XIII wrote:I don't consider Enterprise canon. Its too inconsistant to be seriously applied to a comparison between series.

That's not your choice to make.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2004-12-09 06:27am

Cpl Kendall wrote:Except thanks to Enterprise we now have transporters that are super fast, than become crap in TOS and back to super-effiecent in TNG.

The realworld explanation is that modern audiences would get bored watching a long transporter effect, especially if the effect is even longer then TOS original.

The best Trekverse explanation I can come up with is that the TOS transporters have greater range then Ent ones and as a concequence must utilize a longer transporter sequence. Weak I know, but that is all I could come up with.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-09 06:29am

Howedar wrote:
Destructionator XIII wrote:I don't consider Enterprise canon. Its too inconsistant to be seriously applied to a comparison between series.
That's not your choice to make.

No. But technically, it's Gene Rodenberry's.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2004-12-09 06:31am

Oh, and some of the TNG era vessels are much largen then TOS era ships, Galaxy and Sovereign classes at least. I suppose that could be seen as an example of superior technology.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-12-09 07:33am

The Federation seems to have made lots of incremental improvements in existing technology between TOS and TNG, but introduced very few if any radical new technologies until around the middle of the DS9 series run--at which time, coincidentally, the Federation had faced one military threat to its survival already and had another knocking on its back door.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-12-09 08:25am

Eframepilot wrote:The Enterprise-D runs into an 80-year-old Klingon battle cruiser (or possibly BOP, I forget which) in "The Emissary" and is implied to be far superior to it. The biggest problem in dealing with it was to get the Klingons to surrender without killing them.

Yup. The E-D just shruged off its attacks with a yawn. At the same time, Geordi had done his homework (unlike Voyager he had the sensor settings for standard arrays to penetrate an 90 year old cloak on hand). They tracked them easily. But the E-D never took damage from the attacks.

On the other hand, Voyager runs into a Klingon ship from the same era and has trouble with it before breaking its cloak or predicting its attack pattern or something.

Her shields took a kicking from the attacks for sure. Of course it is also quite possible that they were firing heavy amounts of torpedoes and only a token Disruptor blast or two. They sure LOOKED like torpedoes and not disruptors and were comming from the torpedo launcher.

Even so, Voyager held up reasonably well (and she is a fraction the size and power of a GCS). And one shot of her phasers blew the enemy cloak and disabled her shields and weapons with ease.

And the conventional sensors could not see through the cloak (again Geordi was expecting to track an ancient Klingon ship and was ready) but Sevens Borg enhanced multiphasic sensors easily did.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2004-12-09 03:09pm

In The Voyage Home, Scotty said they couldn't recrystallize dilithium, and in TNG they can, IIRC. That's something.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-09 03:38pm

Trogdor wrote:In The Voyage Home, Scotty said they couldn't recrystallize dilithium, and in TNG they can, IIRC. That's something.

likely happened after improving upon the technique that spock developed when they were using the nuclear reactor's energy/particles/whatever.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2004-12-09 04:20pm

I still don't get why nuclear fission was considered SO awful that a ship wouldn't carry around some Uranium just so it could regenerate its dilithium in an emergency.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2004-12-09 05:18pm

IIRC E-nil didn't have any backup Dilithium crystal when the saboteur struck in "Elaan of Troyius", which why they had to resort to the ones in Elaan's neclace.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-12-09 05:50pm

Destructionator XIII wrote:Is there any evidence that they could not recrystalize them at starbases or other specialized facilities in the TOS era? I know they are always looking for more to mine, but I figure the new crystals would be used for expanding the fleet size more than replacing used crystals in the ships. And the fact that they are so rare would seem to me to make Starfleet want to get the most life out of each crystal, so regulations to expand their life were surely in place and they would have surely looked into recycling old crystals.

The only evidence we have is that burned-out or cracked crystals had to be replaced. There were certainly no shipboard facilities to do this. And the first time recrystalising dilithium was even mentioned was ST4. The rest is sheer speculation.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-09 06:14pm

Destructionator XIII wrote:
Sir Sirius wrote:IIRC E-nil didn't have any backup Dilithium crystal when the saboteur struck in "Elaan of Troyius", which why they had to resort to the ones in Elaan's neclace.
Yeah, I do think thats right. Dilithium is very rare, so I suppose they probably would not have extra crystals to use as spares. But still, they seem to have pretty long lifespans anyways.

Is there any evidence that they could not recrystalize them at starbases or other specialized facilities in the TOS era? I know they are always looking for more to mine, but I figure the new crystals would be used for expanding the fleet size more than replacing used crystals in the ships. And the fact that they are so rare would seem to me to make Starfleet want to get the most life out of each crystal, so regulations to expand their life were surely in place and they would have surely looked into recycling old crystals.

ahem. burden of proof here. if anything it needs to be shown that they -can- recrystalize dilithium crystals during the ToS era. which it never is. given that spock and even scotty (both experts in the subject) said it wasn't possible using their present technology, in ST:IV, it stands to reason that they didn't know how to in ToS.