Better view on Enterprise-J....

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-21 03:00am

Alyeska wrote:Its actualy one of the more logical starship designs. A primary hull in a rather efficent and structural strong shape with just the engines behind it. I don't mind the E-J all that much.

"Rather efficient and structural strong shape"? Put down the bong, Alyeska.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-10-21 03:41am

Bob the Gunslinger wrote: Hey! B5 ships are cool! Grrr!

I think it has some resemblence to the Victory class ship in Crusade.

Someone fucked up the Excalibur and pancaked a giants-zed Vree ship onto it.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2004-10-21 03:44am

hmmm get rid of the saucer and it well may look a whole lot better.

Where o where has the simple wedge gone? The simple saucer,engineering hull and nacells of Ent and Ent A???????This damn thing resembles a tree ornament.

course it would appear on Enterprise....damn temporal cold war.Why not the Earth romulan.....wait....dont want the idiot twins of California to screw that up IMO

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-10-21 04:07am

Knife wrote:
Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Utah Jak wrote:That has to be the worst looking starship ever concieved.
No way. I direct you to Starship Troopers. Also to V and Independance day.
I thought the Roger Young was kind of cool looking.

I agree. It's just the rest of the movie that totally fucking sucked.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-21 04:15am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Knife wrote:
Bob the Gunslinger wrote: No way. I direct you to Starship Troopers. Also to V and Independance day.
I thought the Roger Young was kind of cool looking.
I agree. It's just the rest of the movie that totally fucking sucked.

it did not. It had very little to do with Heinlein, but on its own, it was a good movie.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-10-21 04:29am

Well, then you obviously saw a version of the film that came from another dimension, where it was actually good.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-10-21 05:42am

No way. I direct you to Starship Troopers. Also to V and Independance day.

The Federation ships seen in Starship Troopers were very good looking actualy. Too bad they were troop transports. To me their hull design screamed cruiser or destroyer.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2004-10-21 05:47am

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Its actualy one of the more logical starship designs. A primary hull in a rather efficent and structural strong shape with just the engines behind it. I don't mind the E-J all that much.
"Rather efficient and structural strong shape"? Put down the bong, Alyeska.

DAMMIT! I was wondering where my bong went off to- *takes bong and stuffs it into his backpack next to his AK-47* -thank you- *pats Alyeska down* -here we are, I was looking for this all day!- *recovers massively smelly plastic-wrapped quarter pound brick of compressed Super-High-Grade Marijuana out of Alyeska's pocket, puts into backpack, continues frisking* -what else- *pulls out a few very nicely rolled and truly massive foot-long Cheech-N-Chong blunts, lights one (COUGH! COUGH!), fishes out another stinking quarter pound lump of Hashish* -do we- *produces razor blade (yeow)* -have- *finds several books of king-size rolling papers* -here? *finds another pound of weed divided into several dozen nickelbags inside a ziplock bag; the stench of Skunky Dank Weed is absolutely overpowering at this point, attracting every last police drug dog from miles around* A Thousand Thanks, Lord Wong!

Wanna puff?

Anyways on a serious note, I have a question. Why does the E-J and the Dauntless have such radically different shapes when they both have quantum-slipstream propulsion? I though the nature of QS precluded all but sharply-pointed, highly streamlined, compact, and strongly-built hull shapes. Weird...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-10-21 06:14am

Darth Wong wrote:"Rather efficient and structural strong shape"? Put down the bong, Alyeska.

Serious question: out of all ST ships, or just Starfleet, what would you consider an efficient and structurally strong ship class? How does one recognise such a design (for those of us without an engineer's degree

)?

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-21 07:40am

Knife wrote:Gee, can't wait to NOT watch the show that uses that ugly piece of shit.

Knowing ST, we'll never see a show with the E-J. E-I, E-K, but never, ever E-J. They've shown it already.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-21 09:30am

Stofsk wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:"Rather efficient and structural strong shape"? Put down the bong, Alyeska.
Serious question: out of all ST ships, or just Starfleet, what would you consider an efficient and structurally strong ship class? How does one recognise such a design (for those of us without an engineer's degree )?

USS Defiant.

Basically, imagine trying to make a scale model out of plastic, and then dropping that scale model on the floor. Which one do you think has the best chance of surviving?

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-10-21 10:56am

I think it looks a bit like the bastard offspring of a D7 rape of TOS Enterprise. That is hardly possible though since TOS Enterprise would rip the command boom of the D7 and ram it up it's impulse engines.

A rather bad angle but E-J promises to be one ugly ship.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2004-10-21 12:55pm

CJvR wrote:I think it looks a bit like the bastard offspring of a D7 rape of TOS Enterprise.

*Thwaps CJvR * No donuts for you!

Don`t dis the origional D-7 man.Though it is interesting to note that the origional D-7 design had the nacells attached tyto the block on top of the engineering hull.Not on wings going down to the sides.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-10-21 12:58pm

He wasn't dissing the D7. He just said that the E-J looks like the bastard offspring between one and a Constitution-class vessel.

And really, it does.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-10-21 01:54pm

Dennis Toy wrote:
No way. I direct you to Starship Troopers. Also to V and Independance day.
what you been sniffing chlorine off the blue plains mixing tanks, V ships are way better looking than that shit called Enterprise-J. The V ships are one of the best designed ships in Sci-fi. Starship troopers have some of the best designed ships as well. I do agree on Independence Day.

Well, apparently I mis-spoke. When I spoke of SST, I meant the shuttles and drop-transports, the ones that look like pregnant minivans with boxes on their bellies, not the cap ships. I don't even remember what the cap ships looked like.

As for V, the big saucers may have been practical, but they weren't all that much fun to look at, at least for me. Enterprise J may be derivative and poorly designed, but they still look spacey.

Independence day can still suck it.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-10-21 01:59pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Its actualy one of the more logical starship designs. A primary hull in a rather efficent and structural strong shape with just the engines behind it. I don't mind the E-J all that much.
"Rather efficient and structural strong shape"? Put down the bong, Alyeska.

Compared to some of the past designs it is far superior. Doing away with the kneck between saucer and engineering section is an improvement. Combining the two sections together is also an improvement. And when it comes to Warp Engines and their pylons, those are products of necessity for speed and endurance. A necessary evil. From an in universe stand point the Enterprise-J is a well designed Starfleet ship.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-10-21 02:00pm

Stofsk wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:"Rather efficient and structural strong shape"? Put down the bong, Alyeska.
Serious question: out of all ST ships, or just Starfleet, what would you consider an efficient and structurally strong ship class? How does one recognise such a design (for those of us without an engineer's degree )?

I would imagine that the Defiant, with it's small cross-section, close-in nacelles and armor, would be it.
The Miranda class also seems well-built as it did away with the flimsy "neck" part and just concentrated on hull and nacelles (and sometimes a weapons bar).

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-10-21 02:00pm

There are no words for how f*cked up that looks.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-10-21 02:01pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Stofsk wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:"Rather efficient and structural strong shape"? Put down the bong, Alyeska.
Serious question: out of all ST ships, or just Starfleet, what would you consider an efficient and structurally strong ship class? How does one recognise such a design (for those of us without an engineer's degree )?
USS Defiant.

Basically, imagine trying to make a scale model out of plastic, and then dropping that scale model on the floor. Which one do you think has the best chance of surviving?

For combat situations the Defiant class is excelent. For endurance and high speed at Warp the Defiant is much less so.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2004-10-21 03:14pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Don`t dis the origional D-7 man.Though it is interesting to note that the origional D-7 design had the nacells attached tyto the block on top of the engineering hull.Not on wings going down to the sides.

I would never do that, the D7 and the Ktinga are the best looking Klingoff ships ever and probably in all of ST.

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-10-21 03:47pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote: The Miranda class also seems well-built as it did away with the flimsy "neck" part and just concentrated on hull and nacelles (and sometimes a weapons bar).

Miranda-class kicks ass.

Sidious · Post by **Sidious** » 2004-10-21 04:08pm

Words can not accurately describe the revulsion I feel for this class.

Its taken years for the Sovereign class to grow on me, and its still one of my least favorite ship classes. This is like the Sovereign on a bad acid trip.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-10-21 08:21pm

Alyeska wrote: . And when it comes to Warp Engines and their pylons, those are products of necessity for speed and endurance. A necessary evil. From an in universe stand point the Enterprise-J is a well designed Starfleet ship.

What does the long sweeping pylons have to do with endurance. Thats the product of fuel capacity. As for speed, the Voyager was faster than the Galaxy and almost as fast as the Soverign, and it didn't have long, swept back, pylons.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-10-21 09:55pm

Knife wrote:
Alyeska wrote: . And when it comes to Warp Engines and their pylons, those are products of necessity for speed and endurance. A necessary evil. From an in universe stand point the Enterprise-J is a well designed Starfleet ship.
What does the long sweeping pylons have to do with endurance. Thats the product of fuel capacity. As for speed, the Voyager was faster than the Galaxy and almost as fast as the Soverign, and it didn't have long, swept back, pylons.

Its called warp geometry. For whatever reason the ships shape and warp engine placement have to do with their speed and endurance. Notice how Voyager while fast did have issues of maintaining high speeds for long distances. It wasn't an explorer, but rather a courier ship. It could go fast in allied space where fuel effency isn't as big a concern. Yet a Galaxy class which could go almost as fast was designed for independent opperations.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2004-10-21 10:15pm

I think this Ent-J is indication of the Federation's growing use of forcefield technology--unless they have uber, uber materials science (which is a possiblity) then this thing must require very powerful, very reliable SIF to hold together. It also emphasizes the growing trend toward horrible volume/surface area ratios. That said, it looks kinda sorta cool; it could grow on me, but I want to see more angles, and see it move. Also, if it pwns everything else in a most totally cool way I'll take to it just fine

I see what Alyeska means by structurally sound Federation design; it may not look anything but flimsy several ways to Sunday, but SIF has a funny property that lets designers get away with just about any shape they like--and the Ent-J really does minimize thin structural connections. The speed advantage of its warp geometry is probably huge, considering how tailored the shape appears to be.