What do you think would have happened...

[The Legend Rado Tharadus]

...if Captain Maxwell didn't take matters into his own hands and attack the Cardassians? What if the exact thing that he wanted to avoid happened? ie he reported his suspicions to starfleet and then for the next six months the beurocrats did nothing?

Would the Cardassians have been able to defeat the Federation? Admiral Haden that spoke to Picard said the Fed was not ready for another war. What do you think he meant by this?

A close look at the Cardassian ship strength will be needed. But from the few battles we saw during "The Wounded" the Cardassians were not very effective against one Fed ship. Maybe they had not finished all their preparations for the defense of that sector, or maybe Maxwell was too good for them. What do the rest of you think?

[Master of Ossus]

The Cardassians would have lost, but they might have been able to drain away sufficient resources from the Federation's economy so as to set back the Federation's ability to battle a more serious danger. Cardassian vessels do not match up well against UFP ones, and they have a much smaller fleet.

[Death from the Sea]

I think that when the admiral said the Federation was not ready for another war he was talking morale wise and politically wise. The thing you have to remember is that the Cardies and the Feds just ahd a war a few years back and the Federation made considerable concessions to end the war when they could have beaten the Cardies if the war continued. the Federation just wanted the war over so they gave the Cardies alot of territory that they did not have to.

[TheDarkling]

I don't think Maxwell's attack on the Cardassian made that much difference, remember the Cardies came within a hair of invading Federation space less than two years later anyway.

[The Legend Rado Tharadus]

don't think Maxwell's attack on the Cardassian made that much difference, remember the Cardies came within a hair of invading Federation space less than two years later anyway

Yes but that later attempt by the Cardies was an attempt to only grab the disputed sector they were aiming for (Minos corva I think?). It may be the case that Maxwells attack prevented a similar attempt to grab the sector where Maxwell destroyed that "scientific research center" ie he reduced the Cadies ability to attack more Fed held territory during the Jellicho incident.

I think that when the admiral said the Federation was not ready for another war he was talking morale wise and politically wise. The thing you have to remember is that the Cardies and the Feds just ahd a war a few years back and the Federation made considerable concessions to end the war when they could have beaten the Cardies if the war continued. the Federation just wanted the war over so they gave the Cardies alot of territory that they did not have to.

I'm not so certain. when Maxwell went AWOL there were no ships available to go in an get him back, apart from the Enterprise that is. Why would the Feds not have ships guarding/patrolling the boarder of a recent enemy? Maybe the treaty forbade them any bases? But if thats the case then the Cardies would do the same and the area would be like the neutral zone.

The Cardassians would have lost, but they might have been able to drain away sufficient resources from the Federation's economy so as to set back the Federation's ability to battle a more serious danger. Cardassian vessels do not match up well against UFP ones, and they have a much smaller fleet.

I agree with you. Do you have any Cardie ship numbers?

[Imperial Overlord]

I don't, but DS9 supports Cardassian naval inferiority. The Klingons steam rolled all over them in their big surprise attack. They were quickly reduced to evactuating their government, which they needed Federation help to accomplish.

[TheDarkling]

Yes but that later attempt by the Cardies was an attempt to only grab the disputed sector they were aiming for (Minos corva I think?). It may be the case that Maxwells attack prevented a similar attempt to grab the sector where Maxwell destroyed that "scientific research center" ie he reduced the Cadies ability to attack more Fed held territory during the Jellicho incident.

I can't imagine that the scientific research centre was so irreplaceable that the Cardassian’s hadn't recovered from its loss two years hence.

I'm not so certain. when Maxwell went AWOL there were no ships available to go in an get him back, apart from the Enterprise that is. Why would the Feds not have ships guarding/patrolling the boarder of a recent enemy? Maybe the treaty forbade them any bases? But if thats the case then the Cardies would do the same and the area would be like the neutral zone.

The Enterprise was out there on patrol and thus was sent because it was in the area.

[The Legend Rado Tharadus]

I can't imagine that the scientific research centre was so irreplaceable that the Cardassian’s hadn't recovered from its loss two years hence.

True, but if you can remember the end to "The Wounded" it will explain why. Picard said to the Gul "we will be watching". I took this as: 'we are going to be watching this sector closely'

Hence the Cardies directed their attention elsewhere or they simply continued with their build up and removed Maxwells area of patrol from their short term objectives.

And in any case. One "scientific center" which was actually a base is very valuable. Remember when the Romulans made that fictional base in the neutral zone, and Picard went to investigate? Why did you think he warped there in such a hurry? It was because the base was not yet operational and hence he wished to destroy it before it was. The reason being that it would act as a platform for a Romulan invasion force, just as this "scientific center" would have. So yes, one station is very relevant, especially when you can only build one because the enemy is watching otherwise the Feds would be onto them. Do you agree with me here?

[TheDarkling]

True, but if you can remember the end to "The Wounded" it will explain why. Picard said to the Gul "we will be watching". I took this as: 'we are going to be watching this sector closely'

Hence the Cardies directed their attention elsewhere or they simply continued with their build up and removed Maxwells area of patrol from their short term objectives.

That statement can just as easily be seen (as I have always done) to mean that the Federation will be watching Cardassia in general.

The Cardassians may have simply switched targets but they weren't after a war in the short term anyway just a quick victory (Central Command probably felt a need to gain some territory from the Federation after they had just suffered humiliation at Bajor).

And in any case. One "scientific center" which was actually a base is very valuable. Remember when the Romulans made that fictional base in the neutral zone, and Picard went to investigate? Why did you think he warped there in such a hurry? It was because the base was not yet operational and hence he wished to destroy it before it was.

The idea was that once the base was operational the Romulans would move a fleet in to defend it and claim the neutral zone, which would lead to a Federation fleet being sent to remove them and thus war.

If the base was destroyed before it came online then the Romulans were caught in a minor affair which leads nowhere.

The reason being that it would act as a platform for a Romulan invasion force, just as this "scientific center" would have. So yes, one station is very relevant, especially when you can only build one because the enemy is watching otherwise the Feds would be onto them. Do you agree with me here?

I came understand the importance of a forward staging area of course but I doubt the Cardassians couldn't build a new one within 2 years time with it having very little effect on the overall Cardassian defence budget.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

...if Captain Maxwell didn't take matters into his own hands and attack the Cardassians? What if the exact thing that he wanted to avoid happened? ie he reported his suspicions to starfleet and then for the next six months the beurocrats did nothing?

Would the Cardassians have been able to defeat the Federation? Admiral Haden that spoke to Picard said the Fed was not ready for another war. What do you think he meant by this?

A close look at the Cardassian ship strength will be needed. But from the few battles we saw during "The Wounded" the Cardassians were not very effective against one Fed ship. Maybe they had not finished all their preparations for the defense of that sector, or maybe Maxwell was too good for them. What do the rest of you think?

Maxwell was a rarity in starfleet--a ship commander who used his ship's strengths and tactics. Remember how he kept his ship danceing out of Cardassian range and then destroyed each one with a single volley of fire? He apparently knew how to use his sensors/range and weapons to their greatest effect instead of slugging it out 500 meters from the enemy. (He probably used phasers and photorps timed on target, since he was not in a war Nebula but rather the "AWACS" recon Nebula at the time.)

Just another reason why Nebulas kick so much ass.

[Rihannsu Science Officer]

It doesn't show that NEBULAS kick ass, it shows that MAXWELL kicks ass. True, a Cardassian warship won't stand a chance against a Nebula, but Cardassian ships suck except maybe Keldons.

I don't have a lot of attention to detail (don't recognize more than a few ship classes by sight), but I have watched almost all of TNG and most of DS9 and I know this episode well. Nebulas look like Galaxies, IIRC, only much smaller right? Kinda like a mini-Ent D.

OT: Maybe that's why they chose the name "Nebula-class." A nebula loks like a small galaxy.

[Thag]

Well, if you want strength comparisons, in the DS9 ep where Dukat is rescued after the Feds recapture the station might be a good reference. The ship transporting him was a weapon pod Nebula, and as I recall, it took a four Galor ambush to take it down, and some of the crew were still able to reach the escape pods. Granted that it's several years after the incident in question, but I would expect the tech increases to be at a similar rate.

[Gustav32Vasa]

Well, if you want strength comparisons, in the DS9 ep where Dukat is rescued after the Feds recapture the station might be a good reference. The ship transporting him was a weapon pod Nebula, and as I recall, it took a four Galor ambush to take it down, and some of the crew were still able to reach the escape pods. Granted that it's several years after the incident in question, but I would expect the tech increases to be at a similar rate.

Wouldnt the Dominion give tech to the Cardassians after they joined?

[Sarevok]

I don't have a lot of attention to detail (don't recognize more than a few ship classes by sight), but I have watched almost all of TNG and most of DS9 and I know this episode well. Nebulas look like Galaxies, IIRC, only much smaller right? Kinda like a mini-Ent D.

Nebulas are similar to Galaxy's with stronger shields (same warpcore but a smaller shield surface area). So they are actualy more powerful

[Thag]

Well, if you want strength comparisons, in the DS9 ep where Dukat is rescued after the Feds recapture the station might be a good reference. The ship transporting him was a weapon pod Nebula, and as I recall, it took a four Galor ambush to take it down, and some of the crew were still able to reach the escape pods. Granted that it's several years after the incident in question, but I would expect the tech increases to be at a similar rate.

Wouldnt the Dominion give tech to the Cardassians after they joined?

Probably, but I don't recall seeing any noticable differences in the Cardassian ships or weapons. They may have made improvements to things like shields and sensors, but we also know that Starfleet improved their shields and weapons in the years between as well, which is why I said that their tech improvement levels were similar.

[Dalton]

I don't have a lot of attention to detail (don't recognize more than a few ship classes by sight), but I have watched almost all of TNG and most of DS9 and I know this episode well. Nebulas look like Galaxies, IIRC, only much smaller right? Kinda like a mini-Ent D.

Nebulas are similar to Galaxy's with stronger shields (same warpcore but a smaller shield surface area). So they are actualy more powerful

I think a Nebula is to a Galaxy as a Miranda (Reliant) is to a Constitution (Enterprise).