'Human' Hitler disturbs Germans

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-09-16 07:20pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3663044.stm

'Human' Hitler disturbs Germans
By Ray Furlong
BBC Berlin correspondent

Adolf Hitler shuffles around the tightly-packed briefing room, screaming at his generals that they are cowards, traitors, and scum.

"You studied for years at military academy - just to learn how to hold a knife and fork!" he rages, his hand shaking with Parkinson's disease.

This scene from The Downfall, the new German film on Hitler's last days in the bunker, shows Hitler as one might expect him.

But the film, on show across Germany from Thursday, has sparked controversy by also presenting another view of Hitler - a human one.

We see him showing tenderness to his secretary, and receiving a chocolate birthday cake from his mistress, and later wife, Eva Braun.

"He is a human being, not a psychopath. It is true that he was charming. He had his soft spots," said screenplay writer Bernd Eichinger.

"This is what makes the whole thing so dangerous, because there's an animal in all of us - that's the message of the movie," he added.

Unpopular

It is a message that has not gone down well with some sections of the German press.

"Should a monster be portrayed as a human being?" asked the tabloid newspaper Bild recently.

The rest of the media has been eagerly discussing the same question for weeks now, long before the film was even premiered.

"There is for instance one moment where we see Hitler cry, but I think if you want to have an intelligent film on his last days you shouldn't do it like that," said Cristina Nord, a culture critic for the Tageszeitung newspaper.

"It's important to make films about perpetrators, to show how they think. But seeing Hitler cry doesn't make me know what was going on there in the last days of the Third Reich," she added.

Private side

Made at a cost of 13.5m euros ($16.4m), The Downfall is one of the most expensive German films for years.

It juxtaposes the battle for Berlin with the claustrophobic world of the bunker. But it is the portrayal of Hitler that has received most attention.

At the press launch, Swiss actor Bruno Ganz set the tone when he said that he needed to feel some compassion for Hitler - for fractions of a second, as he put it - in order to play him.

"I cannot only hate this person," he said.

But for all the media debate - and a huge amount of hype - it is not the first time Hitler's last days have been dramatised in a German film.

In 1955 Georg Wilhelm Papst's film The Last Act was based on a screenplay by Erich Maria Remarque, author of All Quiet on the Western Front.

Remarque saw it as a way of reviving memories. Concerned about the creeping rehabilitation of Nazi functionaries in western Germany, he followed it up a year later with the essay Be Vigilant in the London Evening News.

Other films followed. A 1970s film mixed fact and drama by including recorded comments from one of Hitler's servants.

But many critics argue The Downfall goes a step further in showing Hitler's private side.

Film historian Gertrud Koch believes it is a logical consequence of new documentaries in recent years that used previously unseen home movies of Hitler.

"There was a famous series where all these private films done by Eva Braun and the whole crew around Hitler were shown," she said.

"I think this tendency to see Hitler more like a kind of private person was created through this historical footage," he said.

Poisoned children

One of the most harrowing scenes from The Downfall is where the wife of prominent Nazi Joseph Goebbels, Magda, poisons her own children. She is convinced there can be no future after National Socialism.

"Drink, drink!" she shouts, forcing her screaming child to take "medicine".

But we do not see Hitler's suicide. The film is supposed to be as authentic as possible, and Hitler killed himself alone in his room with Eva Braun.

The Downfall brings Hitler closer to us, but there are limits.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2004-09-16 07:25pm

I've only seen a few images from the film, and I quite frankly like it, it introduces a whole new perspective to those hectic days.

As portraying Hitler as human, well, wasn't he? Despite living on drugs with Parkinson's, and having the common dictator-syndrome, the guy still found time to marry Eva. Besides, one can find numerous accounts in personal dairies and memoires of the admiration by those that that dealt with him daily.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-09-16 07:30pm

"Should a monster be treated as a human being"

He was a human being, idiots. Surprise! He was one of you; Satan-figures don't really exist.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-09-16 07:31pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:"Should a monster be treated as a human being"

He was a human being, idiots. Surprise! He was one of you; Satan-figures don't really exist.

I had thought about commenting about that line, but it did come from a tabloid. I wouldn't expect them to say anything intelligent in the first place.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-16 07:46pm

It's easier for people to portray someone as a completely inhuman monster because that helps them suppress any fears that the same things which motivated him might lurk in them.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-09-16 08:15pm

I have no problem with them portraying Hilter as a real human being, I've discovered since having PTSD that there is a dark side to everyone. But we're still human, like Darth Wong said people would rather see Hitler as just a monster rather than confronting their fears.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-09-16 09:17pm

Id rent it. you dont get absolute power by being a monster.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-09-16 09:21pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:Id rent it.

So would I.

I've long had an interest in seeing the softer side of these guys.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2004-09-17 02:52am

They tried to make an "Hitler as a human" mini-series here in the USA not too long ago. The project was getting a lot of praise from historians and TV critics for its historical accuracy and insight. But people complained and the studio was forced to rewrite the script. So, instead of portraying Hitler as a real person, he became a sterotypical "Over the top, Sadistic, Comic Book Villan." The projects name was changed from "Hitler: The Early Years," to "Hitler: The Rise of Evil" and featured a scene of Hitler as a young boy kicking a puppy just to show that he was evil even as a child.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-09-17 03:38am

Tee hee, that's funny.

Hitler liked dogs.

Wired_Grenadier · Post by **Wired_Grenadier** » 2004-09-17 07:32am

So the most leftist newspapers like the TAZ don't like it and the BILD makes some strange headlines about it? Wow, how surprising, really. The movie's based on the diaries and memories of Hitler's personal secretary, who saw most of what happened in person. It's absolutely not surprising that the "official" Hitler differed quite a bit from the "personal" Hitler, so of course he had a human side.

It's just the fear of the liberal media that the Germans might take a more relaxed stance at their history as time passes by, and part of that is taking Hitler and his ilk as what they were: humans. Evil, twisted and crual ones, but still humans.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-09-17 09:25am

Out of curiosity, did they actually find Hitler's corpse?

Slacker · Post by **Slacker** » 2004-09-17 09:30am

The Soviets claimed to have never found the corpse, which spured on all the stories about him sneaking out and making it to Argentina. OTOH, there are reportedly unofficial accounts that they did find his body, only to donate it to a Moscow hospital as a cadever for medical students, and it was later buried in an unmarked grave.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2004-09-17 09:39am

on one of those daft History channal programmes, they had it that the Soviets found his Body and Eva Bruans and his dogs body, all bruned up ouutsidethe bunker as the city fell, because apprently he shot the dog himslef, and poisened Eva, the then took back the remains to Moscow where they were kept in the Kremlin Vaults or somesuch thing

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2004-09-17 09:56am

HemlockGrey wrote:Out of curiosity, did they actually find Hitler's corpse?

The Soviets found them, and some of the unburnt remains were discovered in (I think) KGB archives after the end of the old regime, including the part of Hitler's skull where the bullet entered

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2004-09-17 11:42am

Darth Wong wrote:It's easier for people to portray someone as a completely inhuman monster because that helps them suppress any fears that the same things which motivated him might lurk in them.

[off-topic]

Similar analogy is probably the case of Malaysia & Indonesia banning Schlinder's List. Since the movie shows the suffering of the Jews during holocaust, some top religious (fanatic) leaders pressed the government to ban the movie because "it might cause some of the moslem population to sympathize with the Jews".

[/off-topic]

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-09-17 12:58pm

Anyone who's seen the episode "Nemesis" of the documentary series World at War, which covers the last weeks of the war in Europe with a special focus on the Russian advance into Berlin and the situation in the bunker with testimony from Albert Speer, one of his secretaries Traudl Junge, Hitler's chaeffuer/ bodyguard (don't recall his name) would know that "Downfall" sounds quite accurate- the stiuation in the bunker was bizarre and incredibly interesting to hear from the people who were there the whole time (especially Traudl Junge).

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-09-18 07:22am

Adolf Hitler was as human as everyone else. While he commissioned the murder of six million Jews and two million people of other ethnicities, and instigated a war that killed 55 million people, he was a human. He wasn't the Devil in disguise. He was a delusional man, not a monster (well, in one sense he was, but you know what I mean).

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-09-18 08:30am

HemlockGrey wrote:Out of curiosity, did they actually find Hitler's corpse?

I thought I would clarify this a bit since there are many misconceptions posted, it's rather long and off-topic but...

When Adolf Hitler announced his plan to commit suicide along with his wife, he ordered their bodies to be burned afterwards (which I'm sure you're all aware of).
Hitler's aide, Linge, and a few other people carried the bodies of Adolf and Eva Hitler to the garden of the Reichschancellory and put the bodies in a shallow grave (created by a grenade), pour gasoline over the bodies and put them on fire while the minister of propaganda Joseph Goebbels, and general Krebs held out their arms in a last salute.
After Berlin fell, the Soviets was aware that Hitler had been in Berlin and they searched for the bodies. Some soldiers dug up the two burned bodies, but didn't recognize them so they were reburied. Shortly afterwards, they were dug up again.
According to the SMERSJ translator Jelena Rzje, the bodies was burned beyond recognition, with only the hands and some other parts clearly recognizable as human.
The bodies was then placed in ammuntion boxes and transported to the town of Buch outside of Berlin for an autopsy. The autopsy was performed on the 8th of May 1945. Hitler's cause of death was determined to be from cyanide poisoning, although the protocol stated that a piece of the skull was missing.
After the autopsy, Jelena Rzje was entrusted with Hitler's jaw in order to confirm the identity of the body. She went to Hitler's dental clinic, where a nurse identified the jaw and teeths as Hitler's (the nurse had personally made a partial prothesis for Hitler's lower jaw).
The Soviet leadership hid the truth of the discovery even for Marshall Zhukov, the conqueror of Berlin, even though they mentioned it (but later retracted it) for the Allies a week later.
The remains of Adolf and Eva Hitler was then transported to the East German city of Magdeburg where they were buried (except the jaw and a piece of the skull) underneath the backlot of the SMERSJ German HQ.
After interrogating Linge and other people from the bunker, the Russians found a piece of a scorched male skull with a gunshot wound in 1946. The piece matched with the rest of the skull, and was therefore determined to be Adolf Hitler's. Apparently, the shot had torn loose the piece which only held on by a piece of skin. When the body was burned, the piece fell off.
In 1970, the remains of Adolf and Eva Hitler that was buried in Magdeburg, was unearthed and destroyed. The ashes went into the local sewer. The remains that exists today in the former KGB archives is the two pieces of Hitler's skull and the jawbone.

Now, this is what I remember reading and from my university studies. I'm sure I've forgotten something, but I can't put the finger on it. In any case, there are plenty of books that deals with the subject.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2004-09-18 05:50pm

Dartzap wrote:*sni* apprently he shot the dog himslef, and poisened Eva, the then took back the remains to Moscow where they were kept in the Kremlin Vaults or somesuch thing

Hitler ordered the dog to be poisoned with his own capsule. And what happened between Eva and Hitler is unknown. There are conflicting accords given from Rattenhuber and various other sources.

Regarding the comments made by Bild and TAZ... the TAZ is the most leftist newaspaper. And Bild is about the quality of the Mirror or any other British tabloid.

mange could you please name your sources or pm them to me? I've never heard that theory at university before, so I'm very interested in it.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-09-18 06:21pm

That backlot happened to be a marching ground, so Russian troops could continually walk over his grave

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-09-19 04:15am

Thanas, you requested that I should provide some sources. Most of the info in my post comes from watching interviews with Jelena Rzje, the former SMERSJ translator, but also what I can remember from some books, most notably these:

Joachimstahler, A and Bogler H (1996) The Last Days of Hitler - The Legends, the Evidence, the Truth Weidenfeld & Nicholson

Petrova, A (1996). The Death of Hitler - The Full Story with New Evidence from Secret Russian Archives W.W. Norton & Company Ltd.

Then there's also the classical work by Trevor Roper, The Last Days of Hitler. I don't remember on top of my head who the publisher is. Roper was a British intelligence officer who was sent to Berlin in 1945 to investigate what happened to Hitler. Although this book was written in 1947, IIRC, I believe a new edition is available.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2004-09-19 05:43pm

Thanas wrote:Regarding the comments made by Bild and TAZ... the TAZ is the most leftist newaspaper. And Bild is about the quality of the Mirror or any other British tabloid.

mange could you please name your sources or pm them to me? I've never heard that theory at university before, so I'm very interested in it.

Actually I'd rate the TAZ only the third-most leftist. The Junge Welt and the Neues Deutschland are still around.

Also regarding the story about Hitler's Teeth, Mark Benecke, one of the most famous forensic biologists did a National Geographics programme on this topic. Some details and also photographs can be found on his website.
here and here

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2004-09-19 09:36pm

Macross wrote:They tried to make an "Hitler as a human" mini-series here in the USA not too long ago. The project was getting a lot of praise from historians and TV critics for its historical accuracy and insight. But people complained and the studio was forced to rewrite the script. So, instead of portraying Hitler as a real person, he became a sterotypical "Over the top, Sadistic, Comic Book Villan." The projects name was changed from "Hitler: The Early Years," to "Hitler: The Rise of Evil" and featured a scene of Hitler as a young boy kicking a puppy just to show that he was evil even as a child.

I saw that, but missed the part when he was a boy. I actually do remember them playing triumphant music whenever the Nazis had successes in gaining power. It seemed kind of disturbing to me.