If you wrote Star Trek

PST: discuss Star Trek without "versus" arguments.

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Stofsk
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Post by Stofsk »

Actually I think that would be the best solution. I hate VOY and ENT, and DS9 was hit and miss (largely miss), same with TNG. If they could come out with a new show that disavows them I'd be happy. A lot of trekkies wouldn't, but then... who cares?

Besides, a Captain Sulu series is begging to be told. And it works because you don't have to refer to Trek's bastard children, or TOS's one true successor (TNG). It can shed detail on the Federation, and the era, because not a lot has been told about that period (unlike the TNG era, which suffers from information overload).

Yes, you do have to put in Captain Sulu, and possibly his daughter as well. But that's acceptable for me because George Takei rocks. And so does the Excelsior.
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Jon
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Post by Jon »

That'd suit me, Sulu and the Excelsior yes, as long as they we're the flagship in an entirely new federation/star trek universe :P

Excelsior is the sexist ship in Trek, indeed.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

wautd wrote:A new series in the near future of DS9. I would make the UFP more militaristic, brutal with heavily upgraded battleships and capable marines. Give them "the shoot first, diplomacy later" attitude

But i guess it wouldnt be star trek anymore ;)
Nor would it be intelligent any more. There are scenarios where it's better to try and negotiate before trying to shoot the crap out of the other guy.

Besides, you couldn't afford that kind of series, not with the godawful bloat that Star Trek carries nowadays.

That's the other thing; the producers all need to be canned and people need to be brought in to fucking trim the fat, because frankly the Ronald D. Moore "phasers and photon torpedoes cost money!" whines simply can't cut it when Babylon 5 pulled off a great-looking show with a smaller budget than Wishbone.

I don't mind sprinkling action in among the episodes; that's fine, action does have a place in Star Trek. But it has to be good. When you halfass it as in Generations, you're going to piss people off, and when you blame it on the budget when you had a much bigger budget than TWOK to play with, you're going to come across as utterly incompetent.
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Post by wautd »

Uraniun235 wrote:
wautd wrote:A new series in the near future of DS9. I would make the UFP more militaristic, brutal with heavily upgraded battleships and capable marines. Give them "the shoot first, diplomacy later" attitude

But i guess it wouldnt be star trek anymore ;)
Nor would it be intelligent any more. There are scenarios where it's better to try and negotiate before trying to shoot the crap out of the other guy.

Besides, you couldn't afford that kind of series, not with the godawful bloat that Star Trek carries nowadays.

That's the other thing; the producers all need to be canned and people need to be brought in to fucking trim the fat, because frankly the Ronald D. Moore "phasers and photon torpedoes cost money!" whines simply can't cut it when Babylon 5 pulled off a great-looking show with a smaller budget than Wishbone.

I don't mind sprinkling action in among the episodes; that's fine, action does have a place in Star Trek. But it has to be good. When you halfass it as in Generations, you're going to piss people off, and when you blame it on the budget when you had a much bigger budget than TWOK to play with, you're going to come across as utterly incompetent.
Perhaps
But you could make their attitude less cheesy with the same budget. A dictator that somehow seize leadership would do the trick ;)
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Post by Sarevok »

A dominion war series covering the adventures of the Enterprise-E during the Dominion war would be great. The movies dont tell us what was the Enterprise doing or where it was during the Dominion war. A new show could cast a light on it. It could show Enterprise doing diplomacy to bring new races on the side of the Federation, participating in fleet battles etc.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Post by General Zod »

evilcat4000 wrote:A dominion war series covering the adventures of the Enterprise-E during the Dominion war would be great. The movies dont tell us what was the Enterprise doing or where it was during the Dominion war. A new show could cast a light on it. It could show Enterprise doing diplomacy to bring new races on the side of the Federation, participating in fleet battles etc.
that'd be rather tough to pull off successfully, given the aging TNG cast and the fact that several of them don't seem to be too terribly interested in acting in Trek shows anymore.
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Post by RedImperator »

May I suggest that part of the problem with new Trek is that it's forgotten what it's supposed to be about--exploration for the sheer joy of it and the triumph of the human spirit in a hostile universe--and turning it into a Star Wars or B5 or Battlestar Galactica or Space Crusier Yamato or whatever clone isn't going to make it any better. Media sci-fi is full of war stories, and another one with phasers instead of wave cannons or turbolasers isn't going to necessarily be any better than the drek we have now or stand out from the pack of dark, grim competitors. Especially since these happen to be rather uneasy times, I don't think the viewing public wants or needs another war story. They can watch CNN for that.

Of all these ideas, I like the Excelsior idea the best. But George Takei is in his 70s now--there's no way he can pull off the Sulu we expect and remember. Better to have the Enterprise-B and a whole new crew exploring the galaxy. You could make the series a bridge between TOS and TNG, tying in races like the Gorn and the Tholians and events like first contact with the Cardassians. You could have a chance to explore the transformation of the Klingon Empire from a deadly foe to a wary ally, and the Romulans' first "international" period (the time between the Klingon alliance and the Tomed Incident). You can explore all manner of mysteries left over from TOS and see events referred to only in passing in TNG. Plus, there are all new adventures to be had. The period between the movies and TNG had to have been a time of great growth and transformation for the Federation, and there are any number of stories to be told.

And you have a chance here to avoid the mistakes made by previous Trek series. Have a large cast and plenty of minor characters, so you can afford to have them killed. Trek long ago lost any sense of real jeopardy for the viewers--ever since Captain Picard was rescued in BoBW II, really. As Richard Whetstone has repeatedly said, when all you have are seven guys, you know nobody important is going to die no matter how dire the situation. Have a sense of what's going on in the background--TNG was at its best when it felt like the E-D was part of a larger universe, and what it did had effects that went beyond what we saw on TV (and things we didn't see on TV had effects on the ship and crew). And by have a sense, I mean from the beginning of the series, have as much background information on the cultures, societies, and states in the Trek universe as you can, and a timeline on which major future events are plotted. Make sure it's all consistent and force the writers to stick to it. Forshadow events that won't happen for many episodes, possibly many years. Think JMS having the entire B5 story planned from the beginning, not Bozo and Binhead trying to pass off name-dropping and backcon as a story arc. Hire skilled sci-fi writers, and try to hire them from outside Hollywood. Re-learn TOS's sense of style--bold movements, strong acting (Shatner might have hammed it up, but Captain Kirk is a cultural icon today and Captain Picard is not), rich music, bright lights. Enough of this milquetoast garbage that's characterized new Trek. Speaking of characters, it helps if you have some. New Trek doesn't--they have meat puppets that do things because It's In The Script. If you want the show to be sexy, then write it sexy and MATURE--yeah, TOS had miniskirts and Orion slave girls and costumes that had to be held on with double sided tape, but the cheesecake was served in small helpings and the sexual dynamics were adult. Jeri Ryan and Joline Blalock are beautiful women, but parading them around in catsuits all day is only sexy if you're 12. Speaking of things only 12 year olds would enjoy, make sure your script editors all have big black markers and instructions to delete every last potty joke in every scene in every episode. Potty humor has its place, and its place is not on Star Trek. Take risks--this is Star Trek, for Christ's sake, and you're blessed with a built in fan base and at least three guranteed seasons (well, maybe not in the post-B&B era, but you should take risks anyway). You can afford them the way few producers can, and most creative people in Hollywood would salivate at the chance to experiment with a major, A-list project. The fact the killer B's had that freedom for a decade and squandered it is by far the worst part of an awful legacy.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

RedImperator wrote:May I suggest that part of the problem with new Trek is that it's forgotten what it's supposed to be about--exploration for the sheer joy of it and the triumph of the human spirit in a hostile universe--and turning it into a Star Wars or B5 or Battlestar Galactica or Space Crusier Yamato or whatever clone isn't going to make it any better. Media sci-fi is full of war stories, and another one with phasers instead of wave cannons or turbolasers isn't going to necessarily be any better than the drek we have now or stand out from the pack of dark, grim competitors.
Yes, exactly. Perfectly worded.
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Post by Trekdestroyer »

or you can ressurect Gene Roddenbury back from the dead with African Voodoo :lol: *sighs*
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Post by RedImperator »

Trekdestroyer wrote:or you can ressurect Gene Roddenbury back from the dead with African Voodoo :lol: *sighs*
Spam, but I'll address it because it inadvertently brings up a point: Roddenberry, when given total creative control, came up with a number of really bad ideas, chief among them was that there was to be no conflict between crew members, no disagreement with Captain Picard, and the human Starfleet characters were to have no character flaws (even Worf's biggest flaw was his temper, which TNG implicitly wrote off as part of being Klingon, and Data's biggest flaw was a deliberate decision on the part of his creator). I don't think resurrecting Roddenberry would necessarily be a good idea, unless it was Roddenberry from the 60s, before his ideology overruled his writing skills (writing flawless characters is about as amateurish a mistake you can make, and there's no way he could have logically come to such a decision).
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Post by Jalinth »

RedImperator wrote:
Trekdestroyer wrote:or you can ressurect Gene Roddenbury back from the dead with African Voodoo :lol: *sighs*
Spam, but I'll address it because it inadvertently brings up a point: Roddenberry, when given total creative control, came up with a number of really bad ideas, chief among them was that there was to be no conflict between crew members, no disagreement with Captain Picard, and the human Starfleet characters were to have no character flaws (even Worf's biggest flaw was his temper, which TNG implicitly wrote off as part of being Klingon, and Data's biggest flaw was a deliberate decision on the part of his creator). I don't think resurrecting Roddenberry would necessarily be a good idea, unless it was Roddenberry from the 60s, before his ideology overruled his writing skills (writing flawless characters is about as amateurish a mistake you can make, and there's no way he could have logically come to such a decision).
Personally, liked some of the TNG - although they really do need to shift characters around (something called promotion).
DS9 was good at the beginning - I liked the political wheeling and dealing.

Voyager - well, Borg in catsuit summed up its attraction :D
Enterprise - the less said, the better

I basically agree with Red - bring back some good (flawed characters). Picard could have been a very good captain (Stewart is a solid, well trained actor - can pull it off). Make him a bit of a martinet (every bit of the uniform, room, office is gleaming and absolutely perfect) - have Mr. Slacker (always slightly unkempt and slightly sloppy) as a very good XO - some ready made tension and some decent comedy. Get rid of the counsellor - one of the best fanfics I've read is how Troi got and kept her job (NC17 rated story, but probably true).

Keep it heavily exploring and diplomatic in theme with a some battles, politicals and military ne'er do wells thrown in for variety. Some short (3/4 episode) story arcs could work to tie all these things together.

Stop the idiotic practice of having the top ship officers all go exploring - pick one member and have the rest be redshirts. Top officers should be reserved for diplomatic functions (otherwise you are insulting your hosts - so can't really avoid putting everyone in danger). If they get kidnapped, taken hostage, etc... - provides another good story (probably too close to real life these case)

Have sensible sidearms (and not dustbusters).

Avoid too many episodes where the ship is going to explode. Have some tolerable reason for it (freak storm, battle damage, sabotage) to boot and not because somebody breathed on the warp coil. Also, don't make it the focus of a full show - pointless.

Technobabble - kill it. Use Scottie's language (She ain't gonna make it, Cap'n). The Captain doesn't really care why his ship/engine/shield, etc... is about to blow - just fix the damn thing. The debriefing why something took place can be offscreen (although showing one where people are trying to CYA and play pass the buck could be fun if part of a larger plot)

NO KIDS AS REGULARS - PERIOD.

Understand the concept of ranks. Enlisted/NCOs/Officers. Each does different things.

Now all I need is to buy Paramount, and Trek will be saved :lol:
Anyone have a billion to spare :?:
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