How much energy was used in the Genesis explosion?

[Straha]

Anyone got a guess as to how much energy was used by the genesis device to turn the Nebula into the planet and star?

[HRogge]

Anyone got a guess as to how much energy was used by the genesis device to turn the Nebula into the planet and star?

The question is: Where did all this energy go ? If you compact a nebula into a planet you GET much energy.

[Sarevok]

My guess is the Genesis device actualy did not spend a lot of energy creating a star system. Star systems occur naturaly over very long periods of time. The Genesis device accelerated time so that it happens very quickly.

[Tribun]

Anyone got a guess as to how much energy was used by the genesis device to turn the Nebula into the planet and star?

I should remind you that the star around which Genisis is circling, is the star of Regular, and not one it created itself. The Mutara nebular was in the Regular system, as observed by the short time they needed to reach it.

[Alferd Packer]

I submit that the excess energy didn't go anywhere. After all, the planet tore itself apart after what? Two months? The minimum 5E16 megatons or so to blow up a planet didn't come from some external sources, so perhaps the instability was caused by the fact that Genesis didn't dissipate the extra energy. Perhaps it converted it to something fissile, and when forming the planet, a supercritical reaction began. Over the two months or so, the problem got worse and worse in a geometric fashion, until it finally produced 5E16 megatons in an extremely short time and blew the planet apart.

Failing that explanation, I think the fact remains that the extra energy was not dissipated, and was the ultimate factor in destroying Genesis. There are most likely better rationalizations than mine, but regardless, I think the critical fact is that the extra energy remained and ultimately destroyed Genesis.

[HRogge]

It could really be that the excess energy was the problem Genesis had... they tried to store it within some kind of "unknown-tech-special-substance" and it wrecked the planet some time later.

[Straha]

Anyone got a guess as to how much energy was used by the genesis device to turn the Nebula into the planet and star?

The question is: Where did all this energy go ? If you compact a nebula into a planet you GET much energy.

But it takes energy to compact the nebula. If you freeze water into ice you're getting energy, but my refigerator still requires energy to freeze the water. I understand it might not be too much, but I would very much enjoy a ball park figure...

[Ted C]

Hypothesis: The Genesis planet was unstable because something on the order of 2.4E32 J of energy had to be stored as unstable protomatter in the planet's mass in order for it to cool down to a habitable temperature within a few hours/days time.

If used on an existing planetary body instead of a nebula, there would be little or no GPE from collapse to deal with, so the resulting planet would contain little or no protomatter and therefore it wouldn't be prone to exploding. In this case, however, the protomatter began to decay at rapidly increasing rate, releasing the stored energy as heat. The rapid energy buildup soon resulted in the explosion of the planet.

Problem: If the Genesis Device were used on a "moon or other dead form" that was already too cool to support life, where would it get the energy to warm the planet to a habitable state? If the target were an airless moon, where would it get the energy to boost matter into an atmosphere? The Genesis device is no larger than an ordinary photon torpedo, so it couldn't have carried more than a few kilograms of antimatter to use as an energy source.

[Darth Wong]

Problem: If the Genesis Device were used on a "moon or other dead form" that was already too cool to support life, where would it get the energy to warm the planet to a habitable state? If the target were an airless moon, where would it get the energy to boost matter into an atmosphere? The Genesis device is no larger than an ordinary photon torpedo, so it couldn't have carried more than a few kilograms of antimatter to use as an energy source.

Why is that a problem? You're assuming that it actually would have worked if used on a moon with insufficient mass. In fact, its theoretical principle indicates that it should not work in such a scenario. The fact that Carol Marcus mentioned a moon or dead planet doesn't necessarily mean she meant a small moon; there are moons out there which are Earth-sized and which have atmospheres, albeit poisonous ones. And when they went searching for a test site, they seemed to be looking for planet-sized bodies with atmospheres.

[1337n1nj4]

Genesis wasn't designed to be used in nebulae though, was it? I always assumed it's destruction was a by-product of that fact.

Another thing-- if Reliant had that much trouble finding a test planet, how did the Federation plan on using it as a terraforming tool?

[HRogge]

But it takes energy to compact the nebula. If you freeze water into ice you're getting energy, but my refigerator still requires energy to freeze the water. I understand it might not be too much, but I would very much enjoy a ball park figure...

The potential grav. energy of a planet is MUCH lower than the corresponding nebula. That's much more than you need to push the nebula together.

[Ted C]

Why is that a problem? You're assuming that it actually would have worked if used on a moon with insufficient mass. In fact, its theoretical principle indicates that it should not work in such a scenario. The fact that Carol Marcus mentioned a moon or dead planet doesn't necessarily mean she meant a small moon; there are moons out there which are Earth-sized and which have atmospheres, albeit poisonous ones. And when they went searching for a test site, they seemed to be looking for planet-sized bodies with atmospheres.

Good point. It would explain why the crew of Reliant were so tired of looking for a lifeless planet to use for the next stage of testing, too. They had to find something with the following characteristics:

• the right mass to make a habitable planet
• orbiting in the "green zone" around its star, where it would get enough light and heat to support life
• no native life of any sort
• not claimed by any of the Federation's member races for colonization
• secluded enough to use for a secret experiment.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

I submit that the excess energy didn't go anywhere. After all, the planet tore itself apart after what? Two months? The minimum 5E16 megatons or so to blow up a planet didn't come from some external sources, so perhaps the instability was caused by the fact that Genesis didn't dissipate the extra energy. Perhaps it converted it to something fissile, and when forming the planet, a supercritical reaction began. Over the two months or so, the problem got worse and worse in a geometric fashion, until it finally produced 5E16 megatons in an extremely short time and blew the planet apart.

Failing that explanation, I think the fact remains that the extra energy was not dissipated, and was the ultimate factor in destroying Genesis. There are most likely better rationalizations than mine, but regardless, I think the critical fact is that the extra energy remained and ultimately destroyed Genesis.

I LOVE this idea!

Radioactive Spock!

WHAM! When you hit him, he explodes like one of the henchmen in the old Batman movie! BOOM! BIFF! BAP!
BORT!

This would make the genesis device into a great way to store energy. You got 5E16 megatons you need to store? Turn it into an exploding planet! (Watch out for that expiration date, though.)

[Howedar]

Why is that a problem? You're assuming that it actually would have worked if used on a moon with insufficient mass. In fact, its theoretical principle indicates that it should not work in such a scenario. The fact that Carol Marcus mentioned a moon or dead planet doesn't necessarily mean she meant a small moon; there are moons out there which are Earth-sized and which have atmospheres, albeit poisonous ones. And when they went searching for a test site, they seemed to be looking for planet-sized bodies with atmospheres.

Furthermore we cannot be sure that Genesis would produce a stable biosphere even under ideal operating conditions. It was untested on that scale, after all.

[Sharp-kun]

Another thing-- if Reliant had that much trouble finding a test planet, how did the Federation plan on using it as a terraforming tool?

Perhaps for the test they wanted a specific planet (to get clean results), but once it was being used "properly", they wouldn't be so concerned.