Last scene from Enterprise season finale !?!(Spoilers)

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-28 04:29pm

I've figured it out. Sam Beckett has actually leaped through time again, to ruin the continuity of another era. He is now in Nazi Germany, intent on helping them win. Soon after he will jump to 1200s and let the Mongols take over Europe.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-05-29 09:34am

Stofsk wrote:I wonder if these bozos even consider that they contradicted themselves about first contact. Now it's no longer the Vulcans who were man's first alien contact, but space Nazis. Expect a cameo appearance of the Borg, who will assimilate the Swedish... just because.

Can we please stop worrying about the continuity? Obviously when you have people fucking around with the timelines you are going to have problems with continuity. The space nazi is likely a time traveler himself since he appeared to recognize Archer.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-05-29 09:42am

Why worry about continuity? Because it shows that the writers care. And if they don't care, I don't care. And if I don't care, that's one more dollar paramount loses.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-05-29 12:12pm

Admiral_K wrote:
Stofsk wrote:I wonder if these bozos even consider that they contradicted themselves about first contact. Now it's no longer the Vulcans who were man's first alien contact, but space Nazis. Expect a cameo appearance of the Borg, who will assimilate the Swedish... just because.
Can we please stop worrying about the continuity? Obviously when you have people fucking around with the timelines you are going to have problems with continuity.

Ah, where would Trek fandom be without B&B apologists? You mind explaining to me how the events of First Contact would have made mind melding a taboo and virtually unknown practice which spreads an AIDS-like disease less than a single Vulcan lifetime before TOS? Given the Romulans perfect working cloaks before the Romulan War? Created the Xindi and the Denobulans, who were never heard from again?

And do you have a time travel copout explanation for ENT's INTERNAL continunity failures? For that matter, do you have any evidence that the continunity screwups are actually carefully thought out consequences of time travel, rather than fuckups by hack writers that B&B apologists try to explain away as time travel?

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-05-29 12:23pm

RedImperator wrote:
Admiral_K wrote:
Stofsk wrote:I wonder if these bozos even consider that they contradicted themselves about first contact. Now it's no longer the Vulcans who were man's first alien contact, but space Nazis. Expect a cameo appearance of the Borg, who will assimilate the Swedish... just because.
Can we please stop worrying about the continuity? Obviously when you have people fucking around with the timelines you are going to have problems with continuity.
Ah, where would Trek fandom be without B&B apologists? You mind explaining to me how the events of First Contact would have made mind melding a taboo and virtually unknown practice which spreads an AIDS-like disease less than a single Vulcan lifetime before TOS? Given the Romulans perfect working cloaks before the Romulan War? Created the Xindi and the Denobulans, who were never heard from again?

And do you have a time travel copout explanation for ENT's INTERNAL continunity failures? For that matter, do you have any evidence that the continunity screwups are actually carefully thought out consequences of time travel, rather than fuckups by hack writers that B&B apologists try to explain away as time travel?

I'm not a B&B apologist. Merely pointing out that attempting to fit your pre-conceived notions of history when you have multiple groups traveling in time and fucking with things is pointless.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2004-05-29 06:53pm

RedImperator wrote:You mind explaining to me how the events of First Contact would have made mind melding a taboo and virtually unknown practice which spreads an AIDS-like disease less than a single Vulcan lifetime before TOS?

Best part of that was that most Vulcans were unaware that mind melds existed but all of them knew about the disease that you could get from them. Given the AIDS analogy, isn't that like everyone knowing what STDs are but no one knowing what sex is?

Oh, and for bonus points it was suggested that only a few rare Vulcans are even born with the ability to mind meld, despite the fact that most every Vulcan character featured in the various series demonstrated the ability to do so, even down to nobodies like Vorik on Voyager.

Even with people mucking around with the timelines, I don't buy the idea that the lack of internal continuity in the show is a deliberate narrative item. There are plenty of time-travel stories that have done that sort of thing without making an incoherent mess of the story itself. It gets even weaker when the "creative" people behind the show crow in interviews about how much attention they're paying to continuity.

-- Joe Momma

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-05-29 08:04pm

Joe Momma wrote:
RedImperator wrote:You mind explaining to me how the events of First Contact would have made mind melding a taboo and virtually unknown practice which spreads an AIDS-like disease less than a single Vulcan lifetime before TOS?
Best part of that was that most Vulcans were unaware that mind melds existed but all of them knew about the disease that you could get from them. Given the AIDS analogy, isn't that like everyone knowing what STDs are but no one knowing what sex is?

Oh, and for bonus points it was suggested that only a few rare Vulcans are even born with the ability to mind meld, despite the fact that most every Vulcan character featured in the various series demonstrated the ability to do so, even down to nobodies like Vorik on Voyager.

Even with people mucking around with the timelines, I don't buy the idea that the lack of internal continuity in the show is a deliberate narrative item. There are plenty of time-travel stories that have done that sort of thing without making an incoherent mess of the story itself. It gets even weaker when the "creative" people behind the show crow in interviews about how much attention they're paying to continuity.

-- Joe Momma

Face it; there hasn't been a decent set of writers for a Trek series in five years, not since the end of DS9.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2004-05-29 08:53pm

This Sums up the enterprise seaon finale.(How I feel aswell)

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-05-29 08:56pm

Admiral_K wrote:I'm not a B&B apologist. Merely pointing out that attempting to fit your pre-conceived notions of history when you have multiple groups traveling in time and fucking with things is pointless.

I repeat: bullshit. My "pre-concieved notions of history" are long-established Star Trek conventions--like all Vulcans can mind-meld--that are being ignored by a writing staff that can't be bothered to care about them. You can't explain them away even with your half-assed time travel copout. Nor can you explain the continunity foulups within the series, a point you didn't even try to address.

Not to mention, if the continunity mistakes really ARE deliberate, then the writers suck for not explaining or even hinting that's what's going on--and since they DO take pains to show the past has changed when the changing past is a plot point. Are you seriously suggesting that making the series a disjointed mess that doesn't even acknowledge events that happened in prior episodes is a deliberate decision by the writers, or are you merely desparately grasping for some kind of kludge to make this series appear less a train wreck in your own mind?

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2004-05-29 09:58pm

Laird wrote:This Sums up the enterprise seaon finale.(How I feel aswell)

Pretty much says it all

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-05-29 09:59pm

Perhaps the whole series will end with them going back in time and preventing Enterprise from ever happening, thus restoring continuity.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-05-30 02:31am

ali-sama wrote:actually. They never went back in time. If you listen to the dialogue. The structures are there. They just are not getting any replies.
Hell they where going to land on the landing pad next to star fleet headquarters before they got strafed.

No, they weren't. They got fooled because they SAW the Golden Gate Bridge (which was intended to fool the viewer as well--apparently it worked on you). Then they saw "three vessels" on their sensors and tried to hail them. Then you hear the cannon rounds hitting, and then you see the P-51s. They never said anything along the lines of "ah, there's Starfleet headquarters, we're going to land there now". They saw the 1940s city, which apparenly looks similar enough to the 24th century city that it fooled them (concievable if the cloud cover we saw was obscuring the skyline and they spotted a few familiar landmarks like the bridge), and that's it. Face it, this is another time travel plot.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2004-05-30 04:01am

RedImperator wrote:
ali-sama wrote:actually. They never went back in time. If you listen to the dialogue. The structures are there. They just are not getting any replies.
Hell they where going to land on the landing pad next to star fleet headquarters before they got strafed.
No, they weren't. They got fooled because they SAW the Golden Gate Bridge (which was intended to fool the viewer as well--apparently it worked on you). Then they saw "three vessels" on their sensors and tried to hail them. Then you hear the cannon rounds hitting, and then you see the P-51s. They never said anything along the lines of "ah, there's Starfleet headquarters, we're going to land there now". They saw the 1940s city, which apparenly looks similar enough to the 24th century city that it fooled them (concievable if the cloud cover we saw was obscuring the skyline and they spotted a few familiar landmarks like the bridge), and that's it. Face it, this is another time travel plot.

I think it is a recyceled voyager plot. either way we will find out int he fall.