time travel in ST

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-06 07:47am

Bardyonic, actually. But I assume that was a typo.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-05-06 09:58am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Bardyonic, actually. But I assume that was a typo.

No typo. The term you seem to be thinking of is baryon, which describes protons and neutrons.

In Special Relativity mechanics, matter falls into three classes: braydons, which are all particles limited to subluminal velocities; luxons, which are those particles which exist at lightspeed (photons); and tachyons, the theoretical particles which exist at supraluminal velocities.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-05-06 12:24pm

Patrick Degan wrote:Oh for fuck's sake!

\

Actually, as far as trek time travel is concerned, this was one of the better done episodes. It wasn't your typical "trek reset button" themed time travel.

This one seems to be more in line with the idea of time travel, being more of dimension travel in accordance with the parrell universes put forth in the TNG episode parellels.

They aren't actually "traveling in time" they are slipping into alternate timelines/dimensions. Since these exist at infinite time periods, one could think that they've "gone back in time" when all they've done is travel to an alternate universe at a different point in time. Many times, the mirror universe is so close to their old one they think they've simply traveled in time. Other times, it is much altered such as the mirror universe, the federation/klingon war universe as seen in ST:E, etc.

The vulcans were right after all. Time travel isn't possible.

It was also nice to see that they at least addressed the concept of a paradox. Something Voyager abused countless times in its run.

Don't knock this episode unless you have seen it. This is the 4th good episode in a row.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and just repeat "Enterprise sux" over and over to yourself, thats fine but you missing out on a show that is actually making some great strides and fixing many of the problems people have bitched about. IT's already WAY better than voyager ever was.

Makes me sort of wonder if their isn't a new influence on the series, or if perhaps Berman/Braga had an epiphany(sp) of sorts.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-05-07 03:03am

According to Curtis Saxton's description, a tachyonic state is simply matter moving FTL whereas a bradyonic state is matter moving STL. There isn't really any sort of "conversion" involved.

But can matter as we know it exist in a tachynic state ?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-05-07 04:02am

evilcat4000 wrote:
According to Curtis Saxton's description, a tachyonic state is simply matter moving FTL whereas a bradyonic state is matter moving STL. There isn't really any sort of "conversion" involved.
But can matter as we know it exist in a tachynic state ?

If it can move at FTL velocities, yes. Presumably.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-05-07 11:09am

Time travel in Trek has two modes, one is Back to the Future like (people time travelling are cut off from the time line and so aren't altered by events in their past) and another version where people are tied to their past (thus creating all manner of logical inconsistencies).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-07 12:28pm

Actually, for BTTF, the timeline is self-repairing, doing its best to maintain internal consistency. That's why things take time (ha!) before they're fully effected.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-05-07 03:07pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Actually, for BTTF, the timeline is self-repairing, doing its best to maintain internal consistency. That's why things take time (ha!) before they're fully effected.

Except the concept of "time" really has no meaning unless it is from a certain persons perspective. I understand what you are saying (it took several days for Marty's non existence to catch up with him for example) but we have other instances where people don't remember things they should (The Doc for example should remember Marty finding his grave in 1955 yet he doesn't).

Still you are correct and BTTF does not exactly delink changes in the timeline from the person affected by them it just delays the effects for an unknown period measured from an unknown vantage point.

hewhocaves · Post by **hewhocaves** » 2004-05-07 10:03pm

regarding E^2, the only way thet i can see that tehy would have remebered it (and this is my half-arsed take on it) is that Loreal's (um.. Lorian's) Enterprise went through the wormhole and got kicked back or forward. probably forward. lets put him forward about a million years and be done with it. won't that be nice? Go bug the Puppeteers and everyone eles escaping the collapsing spiral.

seriously, though... if he gets kicked forward then they know that the universe is safe (no expanse thingie) so they can rest and be happy. colonize Frontios or something.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-05-09 11:20am

regarding E^2, the only way thet i can see that tehy would have remebered it (and this is my half-arsed take on it) is that Loreal's (um.. Lorian's) Enterprise went through the wormhole and got kicked back or forward. probably forward. lets put him forward about a million years and be done with it. won't that be nice? Go bug the Puppeteers and everyone eles escaping the collapsing spiral.

seriously, though... if he gets kicked forward then they know that the universe is safe (no expanse thingie) so they can rest and be happy. colonize Frontios or something.

What?

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2004-05-09 11:25am

TheDarkling wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Actually, for BTTF, the timeline is self-repairing, doing its best to maintain internal consistency. That's why things take time (ha!) before they're fully effected.
Except the concept of "time" really has no meaning unless it is from a certain persons perspective. I understand what you are saying (it took several days for Marty's non existence to catch up with him for example) but we have other instances where people don't remember things they should (The Doc for example should remember Marty finding his grave in 1955 yet he doesn't).

Still you are correct and BTTF does not exactly delink changes in the timeline from the person affected by them it just delays the effects for an unknown period measured from an unknown vantage point.

The entire concept of a paradox is the predominant reason why time travel into the past is for all intents and purposes, impossible. Although, I'd venture a guess that "travel" forward through time would not be limited in the same regard.

At any rate, I'm still thinking that the vulcans statement about time travel being impossible is accurate. You can't actually time travel, rather you shift dimensions to a parrallel universe that exists at a different point in history. When you travel "back" you actually travel to a third alternate timeline which happened ot have a very similar history to the one you just left. Since there are infinite parrallel universes, then you can do this at basically any point.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-05-10 10:48pm

Admiral_K wrote:If you want to stick your head in the sand and just repeat "Enterprise sux" over and over to yourself, thats fine but you missing out on a show that is actually making some great strides and fixing many of the problems people have bitched about. IT's already WAY better than voyager ever was.

And I've heard this song before; for the last three disasterous seasons of Deep Sleep Nine, each progressively disasterous season of V'ger, and now this abortion of a show and it always turns out the same way whenever I tune in to observe the alledged "improvement". The fact is that they're still doing time travel plots and ridiculous or pointless ones at that. Not even Doctor Who, a series built around the central concept of a time traveler and his ship burned up so many episodes per season with time travel stories.