Transporter: Physical limitation, or Federation stupidity?

[Straha]

Are the problems with the transporters that we see a result of actual transporter transmitting limitations, or are they a result of federation bungling the project as they did with the Galaxy Class, or the Phase Cloak?

[Darth Wong]

Are the problems with the transporters that we see a result of actual transporter transmitting limitations, or are they a result of federation bungling the project as they did with the Galaxy Class, or the Phase Cloak?

It doesn't appear that other peoples' transporters are any more difficult to disrupt, unless they're considerably more advanced in general.

[Winston Blake]

Since other species seem to have the same problems, i'd say it's fundamental to transporters.

Of course, the real reason is that the transporter is such a piece of God-tech that the writers have had to introduce limitations to make a decent story.

[Admiral_K]

It seemed to me the PHase cloak worked fairly well given that it was a prototype.

[Metrion Cascade]

How common were transporter problems? I wouldn't call the E-D's experiences typical. It's design was particularly shitty, and it ran into a shitload of anomalies nobody had seen before.

[Ghost Rider]

I say physical limitation.

Because if the Feds were as incompentent to have a technology that others have easily available and problems others don't then we're talking about people who shouldn't out there in any capacity other then minor.

[Drooling Iguana]

Are the problems with the transporters that we see a result of actual transporter transmitting limitations, or are they a result of federation bungling the project as they did with the Galaxy Class, or the Phase Cloak?

It doesn't appear that other peoples' transporters are any more difficult to disrupt, unless they're considerably more advanced in general.

Yes, but have other peoples' transporters ever caused someone to split into a good and evil half, ot to travel to a paralell dimension where everyone has goatees, or perform any of the other myriad screw-ups that Federation transporters are guilty of? The worst I can remember is when some Cardassian transporters caused the crew to be stuck in a James Bond rip-off holodeck game.

[Uraniun235]

Yes, but have other peoples' transporters ever caused someone to split into a good and evil half, ot to travel to a paralell dimension where everyone has goatees, or perform any of the other myriad screw-ups that Federation transporters are guilty of? The worst I can remember is when some Cardassian transporters caused the crew to be stuck in a James Bond rip-off holodeck game.

Yeah, but the show doesn't revolve around other species. The number of examples of other races' transporters in use is far, far less than the number of examples of Federation transporter use.

[Sarevok]

How common were transporter problems? I wouldn't call the E-D's experiences typical. It's design was particularly shitty, and it ran into a shitload of anomalies nobody had seen before.

Given fact that simple rocks called Kelvanite could disrupt transporters I say their limitations are rather severe.

[Murazor]

Are the problems with the transporters that we see a result of actual transporter transmitting limitations, or are they a result of federation bungling the project as they did with the Galaxy Class, or the Phase Cloak?

Both probably. I don't like calling the Feds stupids... let's just say happily incompetents. It seems that there are lots of strange or not so strange materials with subspace distorting properties that make the technology hazardous or outright useless. I think that some other species (the Voth or something like that?) had vastly increased range but I don't know if they had a better record or they have as many screw-ups as the Federation.

[Jon]

It seemed to me the PHase cloak worked fairly well given that it was a prototype.

Is that the one where they can walk through walls and pass through machinery, but somehow floors and seating still remains solid for them? Great innovation

Hmm. They could see other, which means light was reflecting off them, which means they must in turn be visible to anyone... if it is simply a 'cloak' which also takes them out of phase with, it seems, the horizontal plane- they shouldn't be able to see each other.

But still, Transporters, indeed- the problems seem to be trekverse wide. Though it is fantastic how all those species match the colour of the ffect to their style, Green for the rommies, Red for the klingons, blue for the fed, yellow for the cardies...

[Kamakazie Sith]

It seemed to me the PHase cloak worked fairly well given that it was a prototype.

Is that the one where they can walk through walls and pass through machinery, but somehow floors and seating still remains solid for them? Great innovation

Hmm. They could see other, which means light was reflecting off them, which means they must in turn be visible to anyone... if it is simply a 'cloak' which also takes them out of phase with, it seems, the horizontal plane- they shouldn't be able to see each other.

But still, Transporters, indeed- the problems seem to be trekverse wide. Though it is fantastic how all those species match the colour of the ffect to their style, Green for the rommies, Red for the klingons, blue for the fed, yellow for the cardies...

No, that is not the episode.

That was a Romulan cloaking device and further more it was an accident with unexpected results.

The Federation phase cloaking device allowed the E-D to pass through a couple km of solid rock.

[Jon]

Ah yes, the 'Pegasus' incident, right. But still, I was making a point about the tech. Same thing, they go into 'Phase Cloak' and can pass through the asteroid, but the interior is still solid... I haven't seen this episode for years, hopefully some technobabble explains this?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ah yes, the 'Pegasus' incident, right. But still, I was making a point about the tech. Same thing, they go into 'Phase Cloak' and can pass through the asteroid, but the interior is still solid... I haven't seen this episode for years, hopefully some technobabble explains this?

Of course the interior is solid because the Enterprise and its crew are both phased. Why wouldn't it be solid for them?

As for the Romulan incident, I mean it was an accident. They were phased and stayed in phase without the use of a cloaking, or in this case a phase-cloaking device. No, other cloaking device has demonstrated this ability.

[Jon]

Ah yes, the 'Pegasus' incident, right. But still, I was making a point about the tech. Same thing, they go into 'Phase Cloak' and can pass through the asteroid, but the interior is still solid... I haven't seen this episode for years, hopefully some technobabble explains this?

Of course the interior is solid because the Enterprise and its crew are both phased. Why wouldn't it be solid for them?

As for the Romulan incident, I mean it was an accident. They were phased and stayed in phase without the use of a cloaking, or in this case a phase-cloaking device. No, other cloaking device has demonstrated this ability.

Maybe this doesn not apply to the Pegasus incident, if the whole vessel was 'phased' into a different quantum level of reality (which I assume is the only way it could be done, I must watch the episodes again and see how they said they do it- I am aware of many ways in physics where as particles would be able to pass freely through other particles, but in those cases, all the matter on a scale bigger than an atom would collaspe) which allowed them to pass through physical objects.

But, in the Romulan 'Accident'- this is most definitely nonsense, they can't be out of phase and pass through walls and computer stations and people, yet stand on firm floors and sit on chairs (which they do)- nor would light shine on them, so they wouldn't be able to see one and other- and the fact they can, means that light from 'our' phase of the universe is shining upon them, which in turn should make them visible to all.

[Solauren]

It's say it's a technical limitation.


Kinda like radio jamming.

The various 'interference' causes are more powerful then 'typical' trek transporters.

Make a more powerful transporter, and you should 'overpower' the interference.

'course, I'm probably wrong

[Enola Straight]

Two objects with the same frequency or wavelength of phase would still be visible to each other's viewpoints...although how the rest of the ship would ve visible to them I can't explain away.

Floors have gravity plating...which is transphasic...so it is solid regardless.

Air can still be breathed by phase-cloaked people cuz...uh...

[Sarevok]

But still, Transporters, indeed- the problems seem to be trekverse wide. Though it is fantastic how all those species match the colour of the ffect to their style, Green for the rommies, Red for the klingons, blue for the fed, yellow for the cardies...

I think the colour of a species transporter is same as the colour of the shields on their starships. For example the Romulans have green transporters and green shields.

[Darth Wong]

The Federation phase cloaking device allowed the E-D to pass through a couple km of solid rock.

That asteroid would produce insignificant gravity. "The Next Phase" showed that gravity still affects phase-cloaked objects, among many other forms of interaction.

"Pegasus" also indicated that the phase-cloak is an analogue rather than binary (on/off) proposition, ie- it's a question of the "phasing rate" being sufficiently high to pass through a particular barrier, rather than "phasing" and then being able to pass through anything. In short, there's no reason to assume they could pass through, say, a uranium wall ("The Next Phase" showed that denser objects have greater interaction with phased objects/people) or a forcefield (again, see "The Next Phase"), nor is there any reason to assume that they would be immune to the usual forms of interference which seem to fuck up all of their technology.

[Kamakazie Sith]

The Federation phase cloaking device allowed the E-D to pass through a couple km of solid rock.

That asteroid would produce insignificant gravity. "The Next Phase" showed that gravity still affects phase-cloaked objects, among many other forms of interaction.

"Pegasus" also indicated that the phase-cloak is an analogue rather than binary (on/off) proposition, ie- it's a question of the "phasing rate" being sufficiently high to pass through a particular barrier, rather than "phasing" and then being able to pass through anything. In short, there's no reason to assume they could pass through, say, a uranium wall ("The Next Phase" showed that denser objects have greater interaction with phased objects/people) or a forcefield (again, see "The Next Phase"), nor is there any reason to assume that they would be immune to the usual forms of interference which seem to fuck up all of their technology.

Was it "The Next Phase" or "Peagus" where Geordi commented that it would allow them to hide a ship within a planet? The artificial gravity explanation is certainly the best one I've heard but that just means the phase cloak would only be effected by a gravity weapon of some type and I guess a chemical weapon if they found a way to track them

[Jon]

Two objects with the same frequency or wavelength of phase would still be visible to each other's viewpoints...although how the rest of the ship would ve visible to them I can't explain away.

Then what light source would illuminate them to one and other?

Floors have gravity plating...which is transphasic...so it is solid regardless.

Air can still be breathed by phase-cloaked people cuz...uh...

And chairs are transphasic? I think not- surely they should fall straight through them also and onto the gravity plated flooring (and presumeably, they would also make direct contact with the plating and not the carpet and other materials in between?)

[Xon]

The Feds are notorious for lack of proper safty systems, so it wouldnt be suprising if there were physical limitation which the federation transporters didnt compensate for.

As far as I remember, the number of transporter fuckups in DS9 was vastly less per time than either TNG or Voyager. Mainly because the DS9 transporters werent Federation design.

After all, its a physical limitation of the computer communications that data delivery via IP packets isnt reliably. But TCP/IP is reliable.

In the case of the Feds, its not having the required software/technology to help work around the issue.

[Kamakazie Sith]

As far as I remember, the number of transporter fuckups in DS9 was vastly less per time than either TNG or Voyager. Mainly because the DS9 transporters werent Federation design.

Really? I don't really recall them using the stations transporters a whole lot.

[Sarevok]

The Federation phase cloaking device allowed the E-D to pass through a couple km of solid rock.

That asteroid would produce insignificant gravity. "The Next Phase" showed that gravity still affects phase-cloaked objects, among many other forms of interaction.

"Pegasus" also indicated that the phase-cloak is an analogue rather than binary (on/off) proposition, ie- it's a question of the "phasing rate" being sufficiently high to pass through a particular barrier, rather than "phasing" and then being able to pass through anything. In short, there's no reason to assume they could pass through, say, a uranium wall ("The Next Phase" showed that denser objects have greater interaction with phased objects/people) or a forcefield (again, see "The Next Phase"), nor is there any reason to assume that they would be immune to the usual forms of interference which seem to fuck up all of their technology.

Was it "The Next Phase" or "Peagus" where Geordi commented that it would allow them to hide a ship within a planet? The artificial gravity explanation is certainly the best one I've heard but that just means the phase cloak would only be effected by a gravity weapon of some type and I guess a chemical weapon if they found a way to track them

I believe it was Pegasus. IIRC Geordi referred to hiding a ship within an asteriod and not a planet.