Creating a Fantasy World

[Pablo Sanchez]

That would work to. How would you feel about doing both Pablo?

It would make alright sense, as long as the situation of the human race made sense. None of the crap about every member of the elder race living in wealth and being a powerful wizard. There should be peasant dirt-farming humans... but at the same time, great emperor's who commission the construction of whole new race... just because they can.

[frigidmagi]

It would make alright sense, as long as the situation of the human race made sense. None of the crap about every member of the elder race living in wealth and being a powerful wizard. There should be peasant dirt-farming humans... but at the same time, great emperor's who commission the construction of whole new race... just because they can.

I can agree to that, one thing I would like to see is one of the other races turning to a human and saying something like.

"The warlock is killing us! Quick take him out!"

"How? I don't know shit about magic!" human.

"What!?! But you're human!"

You know kinda like all Asians being good at math or all black guys being able to jump like Mike.

[Skelron]

I suppose the question is with the world do you want the other races to be mysterious rumours or everyday facts with a few to be seen in most large villages. With the Humans as the Elder race I'd see them as being an everyday fact rather than rumours.

Perhaps a few of the races if not all should have been slave races at some point fillling some need in the human kingdoms. Perhaps have a few of them still be Slaves...

In fact perhaps for once it could be the other races that are the underdogs Humanity is everywhere and stamping on the other races, who struggle daily to survive, and gain a sense of freedom...

Nah never mind, I was starting to head into the Chosen one realms, although the chosen one in this case was to be the one who was going to overthrow the Empire of Man:p

[Knife]

How about having the other races be creations of the humans? Trying to equal their creater or give him the ulimate flattery or something?

I was more thinking of having "lesser gods" come into existence under the concept that if there is a cosmic need, someone will arrive to fill it. The two elder gods would represent most natural phenomena, but there could be other factors. For example, the afterlife I construct initially makes no provisions for punishment--everybody goes to heaven. As men grew to know wickedness, a gatekeeper god who punishes evil men would have appeared.

Some of these Gods would naturally want to make their own mark. That's a possibility.

Which gives you a good gateway for magic. If no one wants 'innate magic' then you could have it stem from the god(s). A wizard or sorcerer or witch/warlock or mage could really just be a priest/priestist of a particular god whom have given certain powers to for their service/loyalty.

You can mix that with scores of charlitens who claim magic power but have none, just get by with tricks and slight of hand, while an occasion guy is the real deal who made a pact with the sky pixy and has amazing abilites.

[speaker-to-trolls]

I suppose the question is with the world do you want the other races to be mysterious rumours or everyday facts with a few to be seen in most large villages. With the Humans as the Elder race I'd see them as being an everyday fact rather than rumours.

I'd have thought that if humans were the archetypical elder race then they'd be rarer than the other races, so the other races would be the everyday people who you'd be most likely to meet if you came to this world, while humans would be mysterious rumours in many places.

Also, how would anyone feel about one of the other races being created by the Goddess as a counterweight to humans?. They would probably be stupid but still dangerous due to physical power and/or high levels of animal cunning, possibly something like the giants in Greek myth who attacked Olympos, every time they got knocked down they got up stronger because their mother, the Earth, gave them strength.

[Jason von Evil]

How about a world where the human species is the Elder Race, for a change
Maybe they built giant powerful civilizations, with rare and mystical artifacts, discovered the secret of whatever, and there are only few left, either isolated in a few hidden cities, or spread amongst the other races' as sages and scholars (not necessarily old), or both.

And there's a race of sentient lobsters.

Hmm, the crumbling civilizations of the humans being picked apart by the evil Zoidburgs?

Hurry for Zoidberg!

I created human/avian hybrid race for fantasy story I was going to write. They were the result of humans mating with an humanoid avian race.

If you want to use standard fantasy races, don't take the beaten path with them. Don't make them high and magic and bow users. Don't make Orcs savage warmongers. Make them highly civilized (think Roman Empire or beyond).

Alternativly, go look at pictures of different animals and try and imagine what each one would look like if they were sentient and stuff.

[Trekdestroyer]

Just don't make them all white, aryan looking people, or humanlike. I would love to see some twisted looking monsters or somthing like that.

[SirNitram]

Lurching between the extremes of 'We must use the exact races Tolkein did, as Tolkein did' and 'No! We must destroy every familiar thing in fantasy!' is unhealthy for the genre, so I'm gonna spew some drivel about how to make use of all that baggage.

Think about it. You come into something with expectations, then the author throws you a hard curveball. Properly done, this'll jar the reader and get them intrigued. The trick is making sure it makes enough sense.

Terry Prachett's Lords And Ladies did this perfectly; elves were elves, but they were evil sonofbitches who were nigh-unkillable without precious iron and which were quite ready to do the old legends of enslaving the young, terrorizing the old, and swapping human babies for freakish things.

Indeed, when are we setting this fantasy world? The tried and tired medieval era? I've a hankering for fantastical wild west; ogre tribes being forced back, elvish nobility with their sabres and sixguns thinking they'll 'civilize' the expanding Men, and Dwarves finding nasty shit as they dig for gold...

[speaker-to-trolls]

I still think it's quite difficult to include all that baggage without putting yourself in a straightjacket, some writers can do it, but if you decide you have to include Dwarves, Elves, Ogres, Goblins, Orcs, etc then it's very easy for the whole thing to fall into a very dull and predictable pattern. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Also, if we're still having humans as the first race, where does that leave the Elves?.

[Jason von Evil]

On a related note, Robert Jordan is apparently going to be writing some stories about samurai (well, Shogun, really) Elves. I can already imagine what they'd look like.

Nit: I like your western cowboy Elves idea. I'll see if I can't come up with something and post it.

[Knife]

I still think it's quite difficult to include all that baggage without putting yourself in a straightjacket, some writers can do it, but if you decide you have to include Dwarves, Elves, Ogres, Goblins, Orcs, etc then it's very easy for the whole thing to fall into a very dull and predictable pattern. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Also, if we're still having humans as the first race, where does that leave the Elves?.

Not really, while not original, you can go back to original Earth myth about the elves and other 'fairy' folk. Mischievious, cunning little bastards that make human lives hell. As long as you don't don the 'Tollken' straightjacket, there is room to play with the concepts of elves and such.

We could go the 'dark elf' route, or bundle a bunch of the 'fairy folk' together and have a 'woodland' race that loves to play tricks on humans and in general fucks with us. Some humans call them elves, other human cities call them Gnomes, and other's call them....... so on and so on.

It could get to the point where the crumbling left overs of the great human society, call's everything they don't understand or know some sort of elf or orc in the dark. Even other human tribes they don't like or want around.

Calling the tribe next door a 'half elf' to demonized them for your population in order to get them riled up for war against them, and such.

[SirNitram]

I still think it's quite difficult to include all that baggage without putting yourself in a straightjacket, some writers can do it, but if you decide you have to include Dwarves, Elves, Ogres, Goblins, Orcs, etc then it's very easy for the whole thing to fall into a very dull and predictable pattern. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Also, if we're still having humans as the first race, where does that leave the Elves?.

The whole point is to ditch the baggage by doing something new and innovative.

[SirNitram]

On a related note, Robert Jordan is apparently going to be writing some stories about samurai (well, Shogun, really) Elves. I can already imagine what they'd look like.

Nit: I like your western cowboy Elves idea. I'll see if I can't come up with something and post it.

You rock me like a hurricane, Aya. Make with the fic'ing!

[speaker-to-trolls]

For example, the afterlife I construct initially makes no provisions for punishment--everybody goes to heaven. As men grew to know wickedness, a gatekeeper god who punishes evil men would have appeared.

How about this: for the first few years when men and women lived on the Earth, they lived in peace and did not know evil. But the world they lived in was the creation of a different god to the one who created them, and it was not kind to them. This forced the humans to toughen up, the stronger ones began to oppress the weaker ones, using them to get the things they needed.

One day this came to a head when one man killed another over his house (the murderer wanted it because it was bigger than his own), when the soul of the victim reached paradise it went before The God and told him of the situation. The God had been busy creating the stars and planets at this point, but when he looked down at Earth he despaired at what his creatures had sunk to. He knew he could not let these hooligans into paradise, but he could not bring himself to destroy their souls (which were an imitation of his own being).

So he devised an alternative, the souls of the wicked would be imprisoned in a seperate afterlife, until The God believed they had repented their wickedness. As reward for bringing the situation to his attention, The God made the first murder victim the judge of the dead, and gave him more power so that he was essentially a weaker version of The God. The first victim now stands at the gate of paradise and judges every human soul to be either wicked or righteous, allowing the righteous into paradise and condemning the wicked to the silent cells of atonement.

[Skelron]

.
Indeed, when are we setting this fantasy world? The tried and tired medieval era? I've a hankering for fantastical wild west; ogre tribes being forced back, elvish nobility with their sabres and sixguns thinking they'll 'civilize' the expanding Men, and Dwarves finding nasty shit as they dig for gold...

A long time ago back when I was still in Senior school I reached the end of a Book, (The Lone Wolf Novels (As in the game books, not the other 'Lone Wolf') in the Epilogue it had the events of the Novel being told to a Trucker I think, nothing too unusual except the entire world was ran by Magic., The truck was powered by Magic, filled at a Patrol station type thing. It was a very basic idea I always wished had been expanded on, a world that has advanced alongside magic to a similar tech level as today, except with Magic a part of everyday life, and interwoven into the fabric of the world, your comments here made me think of that.

[Pablo Sanchez]

There's also the D&D method for creating Gods. A "saint" gets prayed to and believed in, and eventually he turns around and finds himself a deity. Or a deity is basically made up from scratch and become real because many people have faith that he exists. Or Gods simply appear because there's a need for them, after agriculture is developed a god of the harvest shows up and people pray to him.

What you want to do with respect to creating races is to look at the source material (not Tolkien--the mythologies that he himself based his stuff on) and consider that, because it often resonates.

[frigidmagi]

Ladies and Gents for your consideration.

Puronai
Origin: Created by human mages by means unknown. Blood Magic use Suspected.

Physical Description: Males range from 8 to 10ft tall, with females ranging 8 to 9.5ft. Their skin is purple and their hair ranges from red to black. Puronai traditionally cut their hair short, regardless of sex. They are mammals who give birth to live young and usually live up to 50 years.

History: The Puronai were used has shock troops by their creators for uncounted generations until the Puronai revolted and destroyed their creators and scattered across the world, forming into the roving companies and tribes of today.

Culture: The Puronai are nomads who rove from one war zone to the next looking for employment. They serve traditionally has heavy infantry, being generally to large and heavy for cavalry troops. The Puronai has several cultural mores that make dealing with them difficult, one is their steadfast refusal to allow outsiders to see their faces, causing them to wear masks when on the move or among other races. A Puronai's mask is very important to him or her and is very individualistic. Primary materials for the mask are feather's, fur, wood, various metals and for the solders the bones of their conquered enemies. Another is their refusal to fight other Puronai, the mercenary companies and tribes have been known to turn on employers who knowing mislead them into battle against their own race. Puronai companies who run into each other will often stop for a couple of weeks to talk, trade, and arrange marriages, in order to keep bonds between them has tight has possible. Unless attacked, or hired to conduct military operations the Puronai are generally peaceable and respectful of other being's property and lives.

Religion: Puronai worship their ancestors, who they believe watch over them from the House of the Dead. Every Puronai tribe and company has a small shrine within lies the rolls, a list of names of every Puronai to serve in that company or tribe. Names are entered at birth, to ensure that even if a child dies before reaching adulthood a place is ready for them in the House of the Dead. Being stricken from the rolls is considered equal to being sentenced to hell for eternity, has without his name being accounted for on one of the rolls he will not be allowed into the House of the Dead, instead he will be cast out to wonder, hunted by demonic beast who seek to devour souls. This punishment is often accompanied by either banishment or death and is not given out lightly. Rape, Murder, 3 counts of cowardice in the face of the enemy, or betrayal of a Puronai in need of life saving aide are the most common crimes punished by this.

Society: The Puronai conduct themselves has a military unit. Every member of the company has a rank and a slot in the chain of command and is expected to fulfill it to the best of his or her ability. A Puronai's rank is usually indicated in his mask, many companies for example have their officers include gold ornamentation in their mask. Front Liners often have animal teeth or bones of fallen enemies incorporated into their mask. Childern live with their parents, but are considered the tribe's responsibility at large for educational purposes. Training for Puronai begins early to ensure proper responses and virtues are instilled.
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[Jason von Evil]

On a related note, Robert Jordan is apparently going to be writing some stories about samurai (well, Shogun, really) Elves. I can already imagine what they'd look like.

Nit: I like your western cowboy Elves idea. I'll see if I can't come up with something and post it.

You rock me like a hurricane, Aya.

Naw, that's Tevar's job.

[Dark Hellion]

When someone mentioned gods creating their own races and a gatekeeper god, it just got me thinking of a whole race of grim reapers for some reason.
Think about it, Bill reaper goes off to bring death to the animals of his precinct while his wife stays home with the kid in their quaint little cottage. Leave it to Beaver with skeletons!
Just had to share this funny thought.