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Which was nastier, more brutal, all-out just not nicer than the other?

Ignoring the scope, the Salem Witch Trials. They were an economically motivated matter, a witch hunt without substance, the goal being to accuse and slander and convict based on one's prosperity.

The Inquisition, on the other hand, did not respond to every accusation reported to it, and when it did, sometimes found people innocent. Inquisitorial trials actually had a measure of due process to them, which in retrospect is natural, considering they were church trials, and canon law was based on Roman law.

I virtually know nothing about the Spanish Inquisitions except that it involved a lot of innocent people.

But I choose Salem Witch Trials because some of those accusers were using the bible and their faith as a way to get rid of people they didn't like.

Ever watched the movie The Crucible starring Winona "Messed Up" Ryder? Very good depiction of the trials.

The Spanish Iq. was for hunting down lapsed Jewish converts. Documentary evidence from the time indicates that it was not quite the bloodbath we have been led to believe. Totally unjust, cruel, and a lot of people died horribly, but not in the numbers we have been led to believe. Apparently English and German propagandists were at work in the 16th century. And I screwed up my vote, the victims at Salem were humanely hanged, while Spanish victims recieved a mercifull strangling only if they could afford it. Otherwise it was burning at the stake. Propaganda would have us believe that something like a million people died in Spain, an exagerrated number, but what about the witch hysteria that gripped most of Europe in the late 15th and early 16th centuries? The inquisition was a fart in a windstorm in comparison. Millions really did die in France, Germany, England and elsewhere.

Shinova wrote:I virtually know nothing about the Spanish Inquisitions except that it involved a lot of innocent people.

But I choose Salem Witch Trials because some of those accusers were using the bible and their faith as a way to get rid of people they didn't like.

Ever watched the movie The Crucible starring Winona "Messed Up" Ryder? Very good depiction of the trials.

The Witch Trials were just motivated by a selfish and egotistical need to get rid of some people. Its a prime example of how petty humans can really be. Severly fucked up.

I'd say the Inquisitions, because of the size of them.

verilon wrote:Which was nastier, more brutal, all-out just not nicer than the other?

Inquisition. All out more brutal and on a much much larger scale. It makes the Salem Witch trials look like a tea party. And fortunately the Salem Witch trials were squashed fairly early on, the Inquisition lasted far longer.

History of the World: Part I

The Inquisition- the musical.


"The Inquisition- what a show;
the Inquisition- here we go;
we're on a mission, to convert the Jeewwwwwwssssssssssssss.
Jew-je-jew-jew-jew-je-jewssssssssss."

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Ignoring the scope, the Salem Witch Trials. They were an economically motivated matter, a witch hunt without substance, the goal being to accuse and slander and convict based on one's prosperity.

The Inquisition, on the other hand, did not respond to every accusation reported to it, and when it did, sometimes found people innocent. Inquisitorial trials actually had a measure of due process to them, which in retrospect is natural, considering they were church trials, and canon law was based on Roman law.

I thought it was because of ergot poisoning, causing everyone to experience LSD-like symptoms and other things, which was then blamed on witchcraft.

That may be true, as might a number of other theories...however, the fact remains that they killed people for not believing the same thing as them. Although, in essence, the same thing happened with the Inquisition. My vote goes to the latter, simply because of the scope of it.

Both were brutal and had brutal ways of finding guilt (to find a witch find a part of the body that did not bleed with pricked with a needle... some would prick a woman 300+ times until they found a place)(a heretic, stretching or drink boiling water). The executions were just as bad (Burning or Draw and quartering... ouch). All in all the inquisition only wins by sheer size.

Spanish Inquisition, scale and the methods of execution carry the day for this comparison.

How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials? How many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials? How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Remeber the puriatians while being ready to kill anyone they could never tried to get conffessions the way the Inquesition did...

Mr Bean wrote:How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials? How many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials? How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Remeber the puriatians while being ready to kill anyone they could never tried to get conffessions the way the Inquesition did...

As far as I remember, no one was burned during the Salem Witch Trials, they were hung (I could be wrong however). And the only witch was Tatuba, a Hatian woman. Infact, many of the "witches" during the Inquisition and Salem Witch Trials were simply Christians themselves. If I recall correctly, The Queen of Spain had this ideal that if you didn't follower her version of Christianity, you can call yourself a Christian all you want, you where still a heretic. Many people called themselves Christians but still practiced parts of their old pagan religions anyway and the line between Christian and pagan was blurred. So the whole idea that is put forth by the Burning Times ™ Myth, that millions of witches were killed is BS.

In Salem, I wouldn't know the specifics about the people. I would happen to think the same that many were actually Chrisitians (besides Tatuba). The combination of supersticion, fear, intolerance, and the ergot poinsoning theory ended up as a bad mixture. To think that a group of people in a church somewhere sat down and thought "We are going to kill these people because I don't like them and they don't practice our religion" is a half-truth. This was not the sole reason.

Well hopefull there are no Wiccans on this board, because if I was, I know I will be flamed......with napalm.

King Cosmos wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials? How many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials? How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Remeber the puriatians while being ready to kill anyone they could never tried to get conffessions the way the Inquesition did...

As far as I remember, no one was burned during the Salem Witch Trials, they were hung (I could be wrong however). And the only witch was Tatuba, a Hatian woman. Infact, many of the "witches" during the Inquisition and Salem Witch Trials were simply Christians themselves. If I recall correctly, The Queen of Spain had this ideal that if you didn't follower her version of Christianity, you can call yourself a Christian all you want, you where still a heretic. Many people called themselves Christians but still practiced parts of their old pagan religions anyway and the line between Christian and pagan was blurred. So the whole idea that is put forth by the Burning Times ™ Myth, that millions of witches were killed is BS.

In Salem, I wouldn't know the specifics about the people. I would happen to think the same that many were actually Chrisitians (besides Tatuba). The combination of supersticion, fear, intolerance, and the ergot poinsoning theory ended up as a bad mixture. To think that a group of people in a church somewhere sat down and thought "We are going to kill these people because I don't like them and they don't practice our religion" is a half-truth. This was not the sole reason.

Well hopefull there are no Wiccans on this board, because if I was, I know I will be flamed......with napalm.

There is no know case of a witch being burned in the United States or the 13 colonies. All the Salem watches where hung.

I would go with the Salem Witch Trials...but no one expects the Inquisition

Mr Bean wrote:How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials? How many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials? How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Remeber the puriatians while being ready to kill anyone they could never tried to get conffessions the way the Inquesition did...

How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials?

Answer:0

many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials?

Answer:0

How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Answer:0

How did the people die? They were hanged or died in prison. How many people died? 33.

Is that it?
yes.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

fgalkin wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials? How many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials? How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Remeber the puriatians while being ready to kill anyone they could never tried to get conffessions the way the Inquesition did...

How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials?

Answer:0

many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials?

Answer:0

How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Answer:0

How did the people die? They were hanged or died in prison. How many people died? 33.

Is that it?
yes.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

But then, you also have to look at where it was, just a few small villages in Massachusetts. Thirty-three people was a lot of people. (Comparatively)

CmdrWilkens wrote:I would go with the Salem Witch Trials...but no one expects the Inquisition

No One Expects the Spanish Inquisitio... oh bother.

Not to mention the other methods used.....dunking into water.....the pricking....etc. They would do it to Children, even. And next to nobody escaped until they rebelled and all said they were witches. (Salem Witch Trials)

I'll say it again; the reason why the Inquisition wasn't as bad was because due process existed as part of Inquisitorial procedure. The Salem Witch Trials were basically mob justice; the Spanish Inquisition gave you a fair trial. Now, of course, under certain circumstances torture could be used to compel you to name accomplices, and you were being tried in regard to crimes of a spiritual nature, by a panel of three inquisitors acting as your judges, without an advocate - But it was basically a system where you could defend yourself.

After all, you had to prove to the Inquisition that you hadn't committed heresy. That meant proving to the Inquisition that your spiritual beliefs were in line with the Church's, IE, Orthodox. So it was a knowledge test of doctrine if you were smart, effectively, the Inquisitors judging what you understood the faith - and how it was supposed to be practiced (Incorrect practice of the faith was the usual evidence for the accusation of being a "Secret Jew" or "Secret Muslim") - And this being the basis for an innocent or guilty verdict.

Even when guilty, of course, you could recant your heresy and thus avoid the most serious punishment. So really the vast majority of people who stood before an Inquisitorial tribunal were either found innocent or got off with penance, and the number "turned over to the secular arm" was in the low thousands.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I'll say it again; the reason why the Inquisition wasn't as bad was because due process existed as part of Inquisitorial procedure. The Salem Witch Trials were basically mob justice; the Spanish Inquisition gave you a fair trial. Now, of course, under certain circumstances torture could be used to compel you to name accomplices, and you were being tried in regard to crimes of a spiritual nature, by a panel of three inquisitors acting as your judges, without an advocate - But it was basically a system where you could defend yourself.

So what you are saying is that the Spanish Inquisition was fair because they had a corrupt "due process" involved, but the Salem Witch TRIALS didn't? I will agree with you that you received a trial, but how in the world, by the furthest stretch of the imagination could you conceive that it was fair? The Inquisitors purposely tried to find anything they could to find "evidence" of their victims were heretics.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:After all, you had to prove to the Inquisition that you hadn't committed heresy. That meant proving to the Inquisition that your spiritual beliefs were in line with the Church's, IE, Orthodox. So it was a knowledge test of doctrine if you were smart, effectively, the Inquisitors judging what you understood the faith - and how it was supposed to be practiced (Incorrect practice of the faith was the usual evidence for the accusation of being a "Secret Jew" or "Secret Muslim") - And this being the basis for an innocent or guilty verdict.

Did you read what you posted? "YOU had to prove to the Inquisition......." And this is fair? Dear god man!!! One's accusers already had their verdicts already spelled out in their minds and were determined to brand you as a witch. Granted, I am sure some people did magage to defend their innocence, but nowhere near the amount of people who were duped into confessing something they never done. Like I said earlier, the Queen of Spain had her little own version of Christianity, if you didn't live up to her standards, you were a heretic. Kinda hard to pass the test of faith eh? Especially when people all over Spain and Europe are not practicing the same version of Christianity. Paganism and Christiandom intermingled and I wouldn't have any doubts that people would easily screw up on "faith tests".

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Even when guilty, of course, you could recant your heresy and thus avoid the most serious punishment. So really the vast majority of people who stood before an Inquisitorial tribunal were either found innocent or got off with penance, and the number "turned over to the secular arm" was in the low thousands.

Psssssft. As history reminds us, there were some German towns ( I believe they were German) who had virtually no women in them. The vast majority of people accused were found guilty although you state otherwise. You act as if these trials were ones "a jury of your peers" like we have today. We may never know the exact numbers of people killed during the Inquisition. It is generally thought that the numbers were below one million and *documented* executions state 100 thousand. Jesus Duchess......

King Cosmos wrote:

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I'll say it again; the reason why the Inquisition wasn't as bad was because due process existed as part of Inquisitorial procedure. The Salem Witch Trials were basically mob justice; the Spanish Inquisition gave you a fair trial. Now, of course, under certain circumstances torture could be used to compel you to name accomplices, and you were being tried in regard to crimes of a spiritual nature, by a panel of three inquisitors acting as your judges, without an advocate - But it was basically a system where you could defend yourself.

So what you are saying is that the Spanish Inquisition was fair because they had a corrupt "due process" involved, but the Salem Witch TRIALS didn't? I will agree with you that you received a trial, but how in the world, by the furthest stretch of the imagination could you conceive that it was fair? The Inquisitors purposely tried to find anything they could to find "evidence" of their victims were heretics.

That said, the Salem Trials were all biased, and they were willing ot hang someone at the drop of someone's word....with no evidence at all. And if they reuired evidence, they "found" some.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:After all, you had to prove to the Inquisition that you hadn't committed heresy. That meant proving to the Inquisition that your spiritual beliefs were in line with the Church's, IE, Orthodox. So it was a knowledge test of doctrine if you were smart, effectively, the Inquisitors judging what you understood the faith - and how it was supposed to be practiced (Incorrect practice of the faith was the usual evidence for the accusation of being a "Secret Jew" or "Secret Muslim") - And this being the basis for an innocent or guilty verdict.

Did you read what you posted? "YOU had to prove to the Inquisition......." And this is fair? Dear god man!!! One's accusers already had their verdicts already spelled out in their minds and were determined to brand you as a witch. Granted, I am sure some people did magage to defend their innocence, but nowhere near the amount of people who were duped into confessing something they never done. Like I said earlier, the Queen of Spain had her little own version of Christianity, if you didn't live up to her standards, you were a heretic. Kinda hard to pass the test of faith eh? Especially when people all over Spain and Europe are not practicing the same version of Christianity. Paganism and Christiandom intermingled and I wouldn't have any doubts that people would easily screw up on "faith tests".

No doubt. There are far too many that would end up failing that test if it were just a test of doctrine.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Even when guilty, of course, you could recant your heresy and thus avoid the most serious punishment. So really the vast majority of people who stood before an Inquisitorial tribunal were either found innocent or got off with penance, and the number "turned over to the secular arm" was in the low thousands.

Psssssft. As history reminds us, there were some German towns ( I believe they were German) who had virtually no women in them. The vast majority of people accused were found guilty although you state otherwise. You act as if these trials were ones "a jury of your peers" like we have today. We may never know the exact numbers of people killed during the Inquisition. It is generally thought that the numbers were below one million and *documented* executions state 100 thousand. Jesus Duchess......

But again, we are looking at per size and time. The Salem trials were in a select few towns (two or three) in Massachusetts, and wen ton for a very short span of time. THe Inquisition was spread over a very large area, as well as the fact that it lasted a great many years. Of course they're going to have enough time to kill as many as 100 thou.

verilon wrote:

fgalkin wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials? How many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials? How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Remeber the puriatians while being ready to kill anyone they could never tried to get conffessions the way the Inquesition did...

How many people where hung from ther feet up side down in thier own home until they died from dehydration during the Salem Witch Trials?

Answer:0

many where burned at the Stake during the Salem Witch Trials?

Answer:0

How many Witchs where tortured by ripping thier fingernails and cutting thier toes off to get conffesions during the Salem witch Trials?

Answer:0

How did the people die? They were hanged or died in prison. How many people died? 33.

Is that it?
yes.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

But then, you also have to look at where it was, just a few small villages in Massachusetts. Thirty-three people was a lot of people. (Comparatively)

Was torture used during the Salem Witch Trials?
No

Were such fancy execution methods as burning at the stake, entombing while still alive, public torture, or quartering used?
No.

Did it attempt to convert an entire group of people to a different religion under the fear of death?
No.

Did it use methods like "drop accused in water. if accused floats, she is a witch"?
No.

I don't see why someone would claim that the Salem Witch Trials are worse than the Inquisition.

fgalkin wrote: Was torture used during the Salem Witch Trials?
No

Actually a man was pressed to death in order to get him to confess. There was definetly torture used.

fgalkin wrote:Did it attempt to convert an entire group of people to a different religion under the fear of death?
No.

No, just extract confessions out of people that didn't commit the crime.