What should a university be all about?

[ray245]

The modern university is rapidly evolving into an vocational institute, with universities offering specialised courses that is directly relevant to the modern job scope. With government either reducing funding to universities and the cost of instruction getting more and more expensive, some universities are transforming themselves into a business organisation. Some of them are entirely private institutions, aiming to make a profit from people who needs a degree for the progression of their careers. These universities usually do not have an emphasis on carrying out research and publication of such materials. Together with universities cutting back on some of the more traditional but less popular programs, the "traditional" idea of a universities is slowly dying out.

With tuition fees becoming more and more expensive, while degrees being more and more fundamental in landing a decent job, the actual worth of a degree is slowly being devalued.

Hence I want to ask the people on this forum, what do you think a university should be all about? Should it transit entirely into a vocational institute or become a profit driven organisation? Should the majority of the population have a proper degree before they start finding their first proper job or should a place in a university be limited to the elite students who were top of their classes and schools?

[madd0ct0r]

ironically, the way the funding in the UK is setup, professors are meant to spend more and more time managing phd students and getting funding, and less and less actually lecturing.

A good lecturer at my uni was recently fired becuase he hadn't kept his quota of papers up, despite him simply scheduling them for the summer when he wasn't teaching.

[Dalton]

I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers, but in my opinion universities should not be profit-driven money machines. They should be institutions wherein people who wish to do so may become learned in a chosen field, and they should be accessible to anyone who wishes to go and who has earned a place therein. Furthermore, the culture of this nation needs to do away with the notion that certain jobs are beneath them; i.e. it should not be a shameful or undesirable thing to pursue a vocation or trade that doesn't necessarily warrant a university education.

[The Xeelee]

I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers, but in my opinion universities should not be profit-driven money machines. They should be institutions wherein people who wish to do so may become learned in a chosen field, and they should be accessible to anyone who wishes to go and who has earned a place therein. Furthermore, the culture of this nation needs to do away with the notion that certain jobs are beneath them; i.e. it should not be a shameful or undesirable thing to pursue a vocation or trade that doesn't necessarily warrant a university education.

Amen!


The sooner people begin to think and act like this, a much better world shall we be living in.

[Stark]

How much of it is just class? Education was super expensive for most of history, and it's only in state universities and the last century of wealth that 'average' people have had ready access to it. With the expanding cleavage between rich and poor and the huge international population of driven people willing to sacrifice for a life-changing education, it's not surprising that the casual 'yeah get a degree' attitude has problems.

[Prannon]

I don't know about you, but in my social circles at least, there is a rather noticeable trend away from going to university after high school, and just entering the job market with whatever skill/interest you have. There are quite a few people at my call center, for instance, who just got out of high school are are just going for it. I knew a lot of people in the various other jobs I have had who also forwent college. The costs involved and the lack of benefits of going are driving folks away.

[Stark]

There are several industries, however, where a relevant degree is essentially mandatory. However, we should remember that many of these fields have been 'expensive' and home of the upper class for yonks, and this isn't a new thing. I think the relatively recent 'must go to uni and get degree no matter what' situation was an anomaly (probably related to the collapse of industry over the last few generations).

[Hawkwings]

So I'm at a large well-respected private research university that (at least in my major) offers courses that are mostly theory, with very little to do with what a worker drone in the workplace would do in their daily work. Basically the exact opposite of your premise. So what is it that I'm supposed to be answering?

[The Xeelee]

Also remember that people are going to university these days to stand out in an "Overcrowded" job market.

[Stark]

So I'm at a large well-respected private research university that (at least in my major) offers courses that are mostly theory, with very little to do with what a worker drone in the workplace would do in their daily work. Basically the exact opposite of your premise. So what is it that I'm supposed to be answering?

Sorry, I didn't realise this thread was a discussion with people who hadn't even posted yet. Regardless, who cares? Lots of people at many levels have degrees in subjects that aren't 'what a worker drone in the workplace would do in their daily work' (a truly fantastic display of elitism, btw), and many PDs and searches will state as one of the first steps 'must have tertiary education', whether because of skills or a simple lack of faith in secondary systems.

If in some cretinous way you were trying to respond to my post, the theory I put out was that since industry in the west became less culturally visible or considered a viable route to success, people raised the next generation to value service sector and professions as a career path. This obviously wasn't a rational or perhaps even conscious process, but in the 90s I was basically explicitly told GET A DEGREE OR ELSE. This is probably not because getting a degree was useful to everyone or improved you in any way - it was because the people telling people my age that felt that trades were 'bad'. Its possible this trend was simply anomalous.

But sorry I forgot tryhards in ivory towers (sorry, 'private research universities') might expect attention.

[xt828]

Before I got my degree, I was told in several interview feedbacks that they preferred a candidate with a degree, regardless of field, because to them it showed that you could complete projects to deadlines and juggle competing demands on time - they felt that high school didn't necessarily do this.

[Prannon]

Don't get me wrong. Having a degree is better than having no degree for precisely the reason that xt828 lays out. You have to meet deadlines and you have to show a lot of commitment in earning a university level degree, no matter how quickly you reach that level or how slowly. I'm fairly certain that I wouldn't have the job that I have now if I didn't have a degree to back up my fairly questionable qualifications for the position. There's something to say for someone who has had the dedication to complete research papers, bachelor's theses, and whatever else follows to complete a Bachelor's Degree in any field.

The thing is that a lot of folks that I've gotten to know over the past few years have realized that trades are far more lucrative for far less expense spent. Plumbers, electricians, and whatever other trades there might be... They don't necessarily require a college level education, and such positions are in such high demand and so slothfully sought after that serious money can be made. And here's the thing. I know people who are successful doing this. As far as I'm concerned - to any kids I have - the idea that one must have a college degree is dead.

[Hawkwings]

Starky Stark Stark thing.

I read the initial post as "Based on this premise that is flawed, what can we say about the way things should be?"

So I'm pointing out the premise is flawed.

Yes, trades can be lucrative. Yes, college degrees are devalued because everyone and their dog is getting one. They don't mean much except if you're getting one from somewhere with the name and connections to jumpstart your career. A degree from West Central Tech U is not worth as much as one from Princeton, as everyone here well knows. And no, having a degree doesn't do jack shit for making you stand out in the job market. If you're applying for a job that requires a degree, everyone else will have one. If you're applying for a job that doesn't require a degree, it's probably not going to be a long-term job and the managers know that (so they won't hire you).

What university does do is give you an environment where you can interact with peers, professor, advisors, people in industry, and do projects and extracurriculars and get involved in such ways that will allow you to stand out from the teeming masses. Everyone who graduates gets a degree. Not everyone who graduates did so and so project and this research and made these connections with leaders in industry and contributed to X research paper and was team leader of Y club and so on.

So in a roundabout way, I guess that is what I think university should be about. Putting all these people together and giving them an opportunity to do scholarly research and projects together in order to better themselves and the state of knowledge. And when they're done, they can be judged on what they have accomplished and gain employment accordingly.

[ray245]

The thing is that a lot of folks that I've gotten to know over the past few years have realized that trades are far more lucrative for far less expense spent. Plumbers, electricians, and whatever other trades there might be... They don't necessarily require a college level education, and such positions are in such high demand and so slothfully sought after that serious money can be made. And here's the thing. I know people who are successful doing this. As far as I'm concerned - to any kids I have - the idea that one must have a college degree is dead.

Well, when the government deliberately flood the labour market with foreign temp workers to drive the pay of such trade workers down, taking up a trade job isn't a real option for most Singaporeans.