Bible-Reading Prison Workers Win Minnesota Lawsuit

[MKSheppard]

Just saw this today......thought this would be interesting fodder for SD.net.....

story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&c ... ibles_dc_5

Bible-Reading Prison Workers Win Minnesota Lawsuit
Mon Aug 5, 9:28 AM ET

ST. PAUL, Minn. (Reuters) - Two prison employees reprimanded for reading their
Bibles in silent protest of an employer-sponsored training session on
homosexuality have been awarded $78,000 in damages by a federal jury, their
attorney said on Friday.

The U.S. District Court jury on Thursday agreed that the workers were discriminated
against during the 1997 diversity training session entitled, "Gays and Lesbians in
the Workplace," said attorney Francis Manion of The American Center for Law and
Justice, a Virginia-based public interest firm that frequently supports religious
causes.

The employees, Thomas Altman and Ken Yackly, contended in their lawsuit that their
silent objection to the mandatory session put on by Minnesota's Department of
Corrections was to read silently from their Bibles. The lawsuit charged that the
session amounted to state-sponsored indoctrination aimed at changing their
religious beliefs about homosexuality.

After receiving reprimands for "inappropriate and unprofessional conduct" they filed
suit, arguing their right of free speech was abrogated and that they were
discriminated against on the basis of religion.

A spokesman for Minnesota's Department of Corrections said the two remain
employees but could not comment on the verdict pending further court action on the
case.

[Darth Wong]

Shep, I think somebody should make a Plain English version of the US Constitution, since so many fucking people seem to have misinterpreted the "no establishment of religion" clause into "let religions do whatever the fuck they want".

[MKSheppard]

Shep, I think somebody should make a Plain English version of the US Constitution, since so many fucking people seem to have misinterpreted the "no establishment of religion" clause into "let religions do whatever the fuck they want".

Then why the fuck don't you come down here, and become a U.S. Citizen,
before telling us Yanks what the fuck our Constitution should be like.....

[MKSheppard]

Shep, I think somebody should make a Plain English version of the US Constitution, since so many fucking people seem to have misinterpreted the "no establishment of religion" clause into "let religions do whatever the fuck they want".

Second go around:

These people were not doing a FUCKING THING. They were reading a fucking
BOOK silently during a "tolerance and diversity" class, and not
disrupting the class, and yet they get reprimanded for it.....

I had to put up with the same crap whenever I worked for a major company...

Lots of bullshit stuff like that in the name of "tolerance and diversity"....

[Mr Bean]

More examples of the lack of US Education system

Second for all intents and purposes Canada is Min-American, just with dumber polititions and the French infulance...
Sure there are visual diffrances but hertage aurgments aside take the avarage American Pol, subtract six IQ points and remove a little corruption and you have a Canadian Pol

[Wicked Pilot]

Two prison employees reprimanded for reading their
Bibles in silent protest of an employer-sponsored training session on
homosexuality.

When you are training on your company's time and dollar, you pay attention. If the article read "Two prison employees were reprimanded for reading their Bibles in silent protest of an employer-sponsored training session on firearms and markmenship because violence was counter to their religious beliefs," they would have been fired. In the military, indifference to training is a court marshable offense.

The U.S. District Court jury on Thursday agreed that the workers were discriminated against during the 1997 diversity training session entitled, "Gays and Lesbians in the Workplace," said attorney Francis Manion of The American Center for Law and Justice, a Virginia-based public interest firm that frequently supports religious causes.

Yeah, the next thing you know, KKK members will sue when they must go through a "Whites and Blacks in the Workplace" diversity training session.

By the way, for those of you who don't know it, The American Center for Law and Justice is Pat Robertson's legal SS squad.

The lawsuit charged that the session amounted to state-sponsored indoctrination aimed at changing their religious beliefs about homosexuality.

I smell bullshit. These sessions exist to say that even though you may not like homosexuals, blacks, Jews, Asians, or Trekkies, you must still respect them and still function as a team in the work force.

After receiving reprimands for "inappropriate and unprofessional conduct" they filed suit,

They should have been fired for indifference to training, see above.

[Darth Wong]

Then why the fuck don't you come down here, and become a U.S. Citizen, before telling us Yanks what the fuck our Constitution should be like.....

I'm not. I'm just telling you that I can read the Constitution that you already have, and you obviously can't.

These people were not doing a FUCKING THING. They were reading a fucking BOOK silently during a "tolerance and diversity" class, and not
disrupting the class, and yet they get reprimanded for it.....

Deservedly so, Shep. If I get up and walk out of a company training session or meeting without permission, I won't be "doing a fucking thing" or "disrupting the class" either, yet I'll certainly be reprimanded. Get a grip, Shep. They were reading the Bible as a form of protest, deliberately ignoring a training session because they didn't want to be trained. In effect, they were refusing mandatory training which was necessary for their jobs, so yes, they deserve to be disciplined or perhaps fired. I'll bet that they won their frivolous lawsuit because the judge in the case was a snile old coot who shared their intolerant beliefs.

Consider an analogy: if a nurse converts to Christian Science and henceforth refuses to pay attention during any form of medical training, should they fire him/her? Of course! People are allowed to choose their religion in a free society. However, they are not allowed to do whatever the fuck their religion tells them to and expect no penalty whatsoever from public or private entities no matter how irresponsible their actions are.

I reiterate: some Americans seem to feel that the anti-establishment clause means "let religious people do whatever the fuck they want". You seem to subscribe to this gross misinterpretation.

[David]

Any kind of "tolerance" traing is b/s. People will not be tolernt of other people just because they are told to. It is impossible for someone to be un-taught hatred in any form if they don't want to change.

[Stravo]

Any kind of "tolerance" traing is b/s. People will not be tolernt of other people just because they are told to. It is impossible for someone to be un-taught hatred in any form if they don't want to change.

Unfortunately due to some rather overzealous members of my profession, these tolerance classes are a way for big businnes and government to cover their asses when things go wrong. If there is discrimination in the workplace, they can point to the training session as a sign that there could not be intolerance condoned by us because we've been teaching our empoyees to be tolerant little zombies, so you can't sue us, sue the employee that did it. Litigation has revolved around the concept of the deep pocket for many years and the deep pockets are fighting back.


Its not like government and big business have suddnely become enlightened...they've suddenly become scared of big lawsuits. BTW I think that they should have sat quietly and listened, if your religious convictions are that strong, a measly old training session isn't going to change them, and besides I would much rather sit in on those than actually work!!

[Wicked Pilot]

I reiterate: some Americans seem to feel that the anti-establishment clause means "let religious people do whatever the fuck they want". You seem to subscribe to this gross misinterpretation.

Actually, I believe it's the "free exercise clause" that you are refering to.

[Durandal]

Yes, everyone seems to think that "free exercise" means that they can do whatever they wish and pass it off as religious observance and cry "Intolerance!" whenever someone tells them that they're violating others' rights.

Bottom line: this is company time and company money. They could have been reading Shakespeare; they still would have deserved a reprimand for not paying attention when they were on the clock.

Free exercise does not equate to a license for irresponsible behavior, nor a free pass for violating others' rights. I wonder what that judge would have said if the two men were reading the Bhagvad Gita or the Koran, or even better, a Wiccan spell book.

This is also something that our congressmen seem to be at a loss to grasp. They think that they should be allowed to insert whatever religiously bigoted laws into existence they choose, and when someone tells them that the laws are unjust, they laughably accuse everyone of "oppressing Christianity." See the recent Pledge of Allegiance decision for a perfect example.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Yes, everyone seems to think that "free exercise" means that they can do whatever they wish and pass it off as religious observance and cry "Intolerance!" whenever someone tells them that they're violating others' rights.

<SNIP!>

Reminds me off what happened in Canada recently when this Christian church went to court to protect their right to beat their kids with rods to protect them from satan. Of course they lost. They were freaking out saying how Canada was an intolerant nation and how their religion was being oppressed.

Last I heard they were 'fleeing' to the US as religious refugees.

[David]

Since this thread seems to deal with the decision of the court and whether someone has the right to disobey their employeer if it goes against their personal beliefs, I'm moving this to OTF. This one is a coin toss to me so if Pablo or Dalton thinks it needs to go back, please do so. ~ David

[Mr. B]

This is another example of the so called "Christian discrimination" that people like Pat Robberson and Jerry Stealwell like to throw around. These two willfully ignored mandatory training, it matters little what they were reading.