Is... (the OICW all it's cracked up to be?)

[IRG CommandoJoe]

...the OICW all it's cracked up to be? My friend told me that you can't even fire the gun without batteries. I dunno, I think that's a bunch of BS or he's getting it confused with something else. Why would they make the firing mechanism electronic? Any information about the pros and cons of the OICW are very welcome here.

{Title changed to be more informative- DW}

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

...the OICW all it's cracked up to be? My friend told me that you can't even fire the gun without batteries. I dunno, I think that's a bunch of BS or he's getting it confused with something else. Why would they make the firing mechanism electronic? Any information about the pros and cons of the OICW are very welcome here.

Some additional clarification might be nice.

[EmperorMing]

Can you clarify this thing a little more...?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Can we fucking stop with threads titled in this manner?

[Stormbringer]

...the OICW all it's cracked up to be? My friend told me that you can't even fire the gun without batteries. I dunno, I think that's a bunch of BS or he's getting it confused with something else. Why would they make the firing mechanism electronic? Any information about the pros and cons of the OICW are very welcome here.

Some additional clarification might be nice.

It's a new expensive rifle and grenade launcher combination intended to be the US militaries new weapon. It's got of electronics in it and there is a major debate of it's feild reliability.

And another smaller one over the cost.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Basically I want to know if it will be the kick-ass weapon I think it will be or if it will crap out because of...batteries....

[EmperorMing]

Linky:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/oicw.htm

Dam websense wont let me get to the other sites.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Ah yes, Stormbringer hit the nail on the head. Do you have any more information about those details?

[IRG CommandoJoe]

That was quick. lol

[Stormbringer]

Can we fucking stop with threads titled in this manner?

Could you quit bitching about every little thing you don't like on this board?

[Stormbringer]

Basically I want to know if it will be the kick-ass weapon I think it will be or if it will crap out because of...batteries....

Probably not over the batteries. But all those electronics are begging to cause battlefield casualties.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Well excuse me for prefering to know what a thread is about without being required to open it.

[EmperorMing]

Basically I want to know if it will be the kick-ass weapon I think it will be or if it will crap out because of...batteries....

Probably not over the batteries. But all those electronics are begging to cause battlefield casualties.

The more moving parts the more likely something is to break, not to mention the 'tronics.

[Darth Wong]

Hmmm ... what about those experimental EMP mortar shells?

Imagine an entire army with non-functioning rifles.

[Evil Jerk]

What, are they taking hints from the Star Trek book of how to make weapons or something?

[MKSheppard]

It's a piece of shit.

When they were testing the variable fuzing of the 20mm round,
the VERY FIRST round out the tube exploded just as it left the
barrel, putting both soldiers who were testing the OICW prototype
in the hospital with very serious injuries....

[AdmiralKanos]

When they were testing the variable fuzing of the 20mm round, the VERY FIRST round out the tube exploded just as it left the
barrel, putting both soldiers who were testing the OICW prototype in the hospital with very serious injuries....

They tested the goddamned thing with live soldiers instead of a mechanical fixture? Is Rick Berman in charge of this fucking project?

[Stormbringer]

When they were testing the variable fuzing of the 20mm round, the VERY FIRST round out the tube exploded just as it left the
barrel, putting both soldiers who were testing the OICW prototype in the hospital with very serious injuries....

They tested the goddamned thing with live soldiers instead of a mechanical fixture? Is Rick Berman in charge of this fucking project?

No, that would have to be the first test with real soldiers. I know of safe tests were completed before any such accident. For that matter, I haven't heard of any such accident now!

And it can function as a rifle without the electronics but it'd make the rest completely useless.

[MKSheppard]

from free republic.com:

There've been more than a *few* problems with the US OICW
prototypes as well; of the 8 built and tested, one blew up during
a testfire of the 20mm high explosive ammo, seriously injuring
the ordnance tech-operator. This is a feature which did NOT
endear the possibilities of these things to the troops observing
the demonstration.

I'll try and dig up some more links for this accident...

http://www.engarde.com/~mcn/hk/199910/msg00381.html
post about it exploding

***UPDATE***Prototype rifle blows up during firing test, injuring 2.

By Matthew Cox
Army Times Staff Writer

The army's rifle of the future suffered a setback Sept 29, 1999 when a
prototype blew up at Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD., injuring two
technicians. The weapon failed during a live-fire test at a remote
firing range. The Objective Individual Combat Weapon was loaded with a
20mm high explosive round when it exploded, spewing shrapnel in all
directions, officials said. Officials were reluctant to speculate on
the cause of the explosion until an investigation can be conducted. The
failure followed about 150 successful tests with the 20mm, high
explosive ammunition, said Stepen Mango, civilian project engineer for
the weapon. The prototype of the weapon that was destroyed cost about
$20,000 for the weapon and $200,000 for the fire control system.

http://www.usnst.org/oicw-article.htm
Article originally posted in teh NRA magazine about the OICW

The U.S. military hopes SABR featuring a 20 mm cannon firing "smart" high-explosive ammunition, a 5.56x45 mm carbine and a sophisticated electro- optic aiming module will give soldiers and Marines a decided edge in the 21st century.

A quiet revolution is well under way to transforming the most basic arm in the American infantryman's arsenal. If things go as planned, large-scale issue of a Selectable Assault Battle Rifle, or SABR, will begin in 2007. SABR is a combination cannon-caliber rifle firing 20 mm High Explosive "smart" ammunition with a computerized, full-ballistic solution, electro-optic fire control system over a more conventional 5.56x45 mm-cal. selective-fire carbine. It is intended to give the U.S. Army and Marine Corps a decided technological advantage over point or area targets, day or night, in the first decades of the 21st century.

The Joint Service Small Arms Program (JSSAP), a division of the U.S. Army's Armaments Research, Development and Engineering Command (ARDEC), is responsible for developing effective infantry arms and related items for use by all of the U.S. Armed Forces. JSSAP began a formal Advanced Technology Demonstration program in 1994 for what was somewhat awkwardly named the "Objective Individual Combat Weapon."

OICW was envisioned as a leap ahead in lethality of the basic infantryman's shoulder arm for the early 21st century. Some of the groundwork for the advanced system had been laid specifically for the "Land Warrior" program, an ambitious and ongoing project intended to integrate the arms and equipment of the near-future infantryman into a practical system.

Right now, the official U.S. military combat rifle is the M16A2 Modular Weapon System (MWS), a 5.56x45 mm-cal. selective-fire assault rifle with a rail-mounting system for hanging everything under the sun on it. Complete with an M203 40 mm grenade launcher, a thermal imaging night sight and a few more gadgets, a combat-loaded MWS tips the scales at more than 24 lbs. and carries a $35,000 price tag. Clearly, there is room for improvement.

While the efficiency of well-aimed rifle fire continues to be hotly debated with highly compelling arguments on both sides many ground combat professionals have long recognized that the best way to increase lethality out to 1,000 meters is through the use of high-explosive rounds. Simply stated, the idea is to consistently deliver airbursts of high explosives close over the heads of the enemy. The challenge then becomes how to give the smallest tactical unit the capability of accurately placing airbursts over immediate adversaries using an arm and ammunition that can be carried and fired by one man.

Teaming

When JSSAP asked the armaments industry for input and even provided funds for concept development, two multi-company teams went to work and subsequently submitted prototype designs. After careful evaluation, ARDEC announced in April 1998 that the candidate submitted by Alliant Techsystems had been selected. Some $12 million has since been paid to Alliant for prototype arms that have been subjected to extensive testing.

Alliant, headquartered in Hopkins, Minnesota, remains a leading supplier to the U.S. Armed Forces of a wide variety of munitions and weapons systems. Ably serving as the lead contractor/system integrator for the winning OICW and its amazing 20 mm "smart" ammunition, Alliant has joined forces with several highly respected names in the domestic and international defense industries to develop SABR. Heckler & Koch of Germany manufactures the shooting components, Contraves Brashear of Pittsburgh is responsible for the fire control componentry and Dynamit Nobel of Germany supplies the propellant technology.

HE Grenade Modes

Arguably the most essential element of SABR's capability is its 20 mm High Explosive ammunition, which is literally half the size of the M203's 40 mm round. The trick is to get a balance that includes an acceptable "probability of incapacitation" Pi in Army techspeak out to a range of 1,000 meters from an arm much smaller and lighter than the 75.6-lb. 40 mm Mk 19 Automatic Grenade Launcher that currently serves this purpose.

There is some incredible technowizardry evident in Alliant's 20 mm HE cartridge, which is about the diameter of a nickel, measures 35 8" long and weighs 31 4 ozs. First, dramatic advances in miniaturization technology have enabled the economical manufacture of a tiny but highly intelligent multifunction fuse. Then, using a process proven in current-generation "smart" artillery, a microchip "brain" is automatically set by electronic signals from the fire control computer through a low- voltage induction coil around the chamber of the 20 mm barrel. Because the round is spun by rifling on launching, the computer considers how many revolutions are needed to reach a predetermined range and counts them with astounding precision before detonating.

There are four modes from which the gunner can choose. If an airburst is desired, the operator selects "Bursting" on the Fire Control System (FCS) switch panel. One click down to "PD" arms the fuse in "Point Detonation" mode so that it will go off immediately when it impacts a resistant target; this is also the default setting. If the target is lurking behind a semi-hard barrier, such as an automobile door or interior building wall, the gunner clicks down to "PDD" (Point Detonation Delay). This causes the fuse to function after a brief delay, allowing the warhead to penetrate the target before exploding. "Window" mode is the fourth setting, commanding an airburst at an operator-specified distance beyond a laser-ranged aiming point. One handy use for this is shooting through open windows, doors or other holes in the walls of buildings to get at bad guys hiding deep inside.

While technical details of the Alliant 20 mm round are classified, there are a couple of things that are both obvious and innovative. Because studies have shown that a traditional nose-mounted fuse leads to an inefficient bursting pattern, SABR's fuse rides in the center of the warhead. Fore and aft portions of the 31 4 oz. projectile are made from prefragmented metal of various thicknesses. This is said to result in a highly efficient pattern distribution of both small and large casualty-producing fragments over a significant area. Detonation in airburst mode gives a particularly effective Pi zone, described in early informational handouts as an irregular circle roughly 6 meters in diameter.

Ergonomics

Of course, the round itself would be of little use without an efficient and reliable platform. Heckler & Koch has applied several innovative concepts from its demonstrably effective 12-ga. CAWS (Close Assault Weapon System) of a few years ago, modifying it to handle Alliant's 20 mm round. Aiding weight reduction while imparting no penalty in durability, strength and safety, the rifled barrel of this 20 mm, semi-automatic, recoil-operated, turning-bolt rifle is made of titanium.

To handle the substantial recoil forces, this new shoulder cannon utilizes what Alliant's OICW program manager, Sharon Boone, calls an "elastomeric recoil mitigation system." When the rifle is fired, the barrel and bolt remain locked together as they move rearward where they encounter smoothly progressive resistance from a device that is described as similar to the shock absorber on a mountain bike. Tests show the felt recoil to be only slightly more than that of a standard 5.56x45 mm M16 rifle and one-third of a 7.62x51 mm M14 rifle!

The charging handle is fully ambidextrous and serves as a bolt forward assist. Using a clever mechanical link tucked inside the receiver, the arm is fired using the same pistol grip and trigger housing as that of the underslung 5.56 mm carbine. Ejection may be quickly reset to the housing's left side for southpaws by simply rotating the bolt body 180 degrees in reassembly.

Fire Control System

As remarkable as both the 20 mm HE ammo and its rifle are, they rely on aiming instructions provided by SABR's FCS whose multifunction microprocessors are similar to those in some powerful notebook computers. Contraves Brashear's integrated, "full ballistic solution" provides the capability to detect animate or inanimate targets during the day or night. It takes an accurate laser range measurement, calculates the ballistic solution, presents the gunner with an adjusted aiming point, and instantaneously sends necessary information to the fuze of the chambered 20 mm HE round if necessary. All this is packed neatly inside a tough rectangular box not much bigger than a carton of cigarettes and weighing about 5 lbs. including its modified BB2847 lithium battery.

There are three distinct, quickly switchable viewing modes on the FCS, giving the soldier an instantly recognizable variable brightness red-dot reticle that also serves as the built-in laser rangefinder's aiming point. Daytime target acquisition is through a 3X optical scope with an 11 degree field of view. This is the "fail safe mode," essentially unaffected by battery condition or other glitches. Switching to TV mode powers up an internal CCD camera with optional 2X setting that doubles effective target magnification to six power. The Night channel incorporates all of the day video options soon to include the extra advantage of a thermal imaging module literally "seeing" the heat generated by a man or other target as it differs from that of the surroundings.

The operator can tailor the information given to and extracted from the FCS using a set of readily accessible function buttons and switches. Three fingertip touchpads are on the perimeter of the trigger guard in a logical sequence with the top one allowing the laser rangefinder to be activated. The next two give the gunner the option of range adjustment in 1-meter increments by pressing the "+" or "-" icons.

Four "twist/click" switches recessed in the side of the FCS housing are used to select options for viewing channel, fuse setting, viewer magnification and dot brightness. At the rear of the housing, just below the eyepiece, is another touchpad that is used to access the onboard microprocessor and select menu items for customization.

Customizing the FCS

Currently, main data entry options include laser steering and video tracker on/off, range data with and without operator adjustment, as well as compass heading and ammunition type. Additional capabilities include self-diagnostics, boresighting, zeroing and compass calibration. Accurate range data comes from a built-in eye-safe erbium laser with a very narrow beam that is projected in a series of pulses microseconds apart. It delivers a reading that is correct to within plus or minus 1 meter, then the red dot is automatically moved to the correct position in the reticle for a first-round hit. Incredibly, it is also able to compensate for the gunner's wobble at great distances by means of a highly sophisticated program in the system's microprocessors.

Sophisticated Algorithms

While transparent to the user and easily taken for granted, actions of the FCS are by no means routine. That simple, adjusted red-dot aiming point is the product of a dizzying combination of factors previously described and others generated by a built-in sensor module. They are skillfully dealt with by the FCS microprocessor's ballistic algorithm. Among these are cant angle of the arm, site angle (target or gunner up on a hill or tall building), the effect of ambient temperature on air density, ammo characteristics, fuse selection, boresight, and zero variants. Other factors mathematically considered include parallax of the FCS and even minute misalignment of the reticle displays. All of this data is crunched and resolved in less than 100 milliseconds! Depending on the situation, the gunner can quickly tailor the FCS settings for optimum lethality. For example, with multiple targets, choose the TV mode and then switch on the video tracker and laser steering functions provided by Octec of Bracknell, England. This function, we are told, is not unlike the ability of an air traffic controller to mark and follow several planes at once on his radar screen.

The Video Tracking program "sees" a moving target in the viewfinder and identifies it with a bracket icon that moves as the target moves. If the target stops, goes to ground, or gets lost in surrounding vegetation or rubble, the tracking icon stays put at the last known location. When Laser Steering is turned on, it works hand-in- hand with video tracking and is so smart it disregards the inevitable human-induced sight picture wobble and separately considers movement of the target!

The video signal output of the FCS can be fed into Land Warrior's helmet mounted display module, allowing the 5.56 mm carbine to be aimed and fired without the operator having to look through the viewfinder. Theoretically, he can poke the gun over a wall or around a corner and shoot accurately without fully exposing himself to direct fire.

The 5.56x45 mm Carbine

For those times when an ordinary 5.56 mm bullet is the least expensive and most effective way to deal with a tactical situation, SABR offers a custom-modified version of the innovative new H&K G36 assault rifle as its "kinetic energy" component.

Mounted to a sturdy coupling rail underneath the 20 mm unit using an operator-removable pin, this handy little 5.56 mm carbine offers the gunner a selection of semi- auto or two-round-burst operation with a cyclic rate of fire of approximately 700 r.p.m. As with the 20 mm cannon, its charging handle and controls are fully ambidextrous. Aiming is through SABR's main electro-optical fire control system. Despite having a relatively short barrel, it's capable of exceptional accuracy due to a free-floating design and cold hammer forged rifling with current NATO standard twist optimized for SS109/ M855 ammo. In the interest of weight reduction, this barrel is a stainless steel liner inside a titanium sleeve. An important feature of this design is a simple, self-regulating gas system that uses a spring-buffered, short- stroke piston to kick back the bolt with each shot. Unlike the M16, it does not blast gas and fouling directly into the bolt carrier. The six-lug bolt and carrier are of conventional design, riding back and forth on two hefty steel rails wrapped with stainless steel recoil springs. That allows a light carbon-fiber-reinforced polymer housing to serve quite well in place of the traditional steel or aluminum receiver. The SABR's carbine accepts standard M16 magazines.

If necessary, the carbine module can be separated quickly from the rest of SABR by simply removing the captive pin that anchors it to the main housing. Since this is the part with the pistol grip and trigger already attached, the gunner is immediately ready to shoot. Later development is likely to include some sort of rudimentary iron sights. SABR is neatly contained inside a sturdy housing of carbon-fiber-reinforced polymer, textured for no-slip handling and colored matte black.

Training & Trials

One means of providing OICW marksmanship training without the firing of expensive 20 mm ammunition may be realized with electronic simulators that use recoiling mockups and computer-generated combat scenarios. Indeed, an impressive system adapted specifically for the OICW has recently been installed at Aberdeen Proving Ground. According to Sam Wansack, Simulation and Fire Control Development chief at Aberdeen, the 12 soldiers involved in initial live-fire tests received primary handling and shooting instruction on a OICW customized SAST II (Small Arms Simulator Testbed). This exciting and eerily realistic virtual reality system, complete with firing sound replication, was developed for JSSAP by the Naval Air Warfare Center Training Systems Directorate and the Army Research Lab. SABR has recently undergone field testing in the not so gentle hands of the U.S. Army's famed 25th "Tropic Lightning" Infantry Division. Their candid feedback is being systematically collected and used for improvements to the system. Subsequent trials are to be conducted in jungle, desert and Arctic environments to see if laboratory results hold up in the real, muddy world of boot soldiers.

Although JSSAP has built in time and money for improvements identified in troop testing and other ongoing experimentation, some insiders question the need for six more years before large-scale production begins. Among reasons for this given by the Army and Alliant are the need to increase the system's capability and decrease its weight. Since we currently enjoy a peacetime disposition, this can be done in a methodical and cost-effective manner.

Timeline

But a funding shortfall, say some insiders, is one of the biggest reasons it may be more than six years before significant numbers of these revolutionary arms begin to reach Army and Marine infantry squads. The schedule could be shortened significantly if Congress would appropriate sufficient funds earmarked specifically for OICW.

Just how much are we talking about? According to projections, one weapons system with FCS is expected to cost about $10,000, and 20 mm HE ammo should cost around $25 per round in quantity production. Current fielding plans call for a minimum of 40,000 units and a and sufficient HE ammo for proficiency training and future wartime contingencies.

[Stormbringer]

I'm not suprised in the least, it's some arms makers wet dream. It's not suitable for the technology we have today. If it's adopted, some poor grunts are going to be awfully sorry.

[The Yosemite Bear]

So in otherwords shep's saying this is the new version of the M-16 circa My stepdad's time in the Service?

[MKSheppard]

I'm not suprised in the least, it's some arms makers wet dream. It's not suitable for the technology we have today. If it's adopted, some poor grunts are going to be awfully sorry.

I'm good for digging up information on small arms, and various gun laws....
if you ever need to know if somethings illegal where you're going, just ask
Shep.....

[Stormbringer]

So in otherwords shep's saying this is the new version of the M-16 circa My stepdad's time in the Service?

I'd say worse. It's less reliable and there really isn't much you can do to fix it, unlike the M-16.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I mean after they built enough cleaning kits (Like say one for every person fighting rather then one for ten), got decent burning powder, bullets designed to actually be fired down the barrel of the gun, and replaced the Barrels, the M-16 kicked ass. Just it SUCKED to be a soldier in Vietnam, because of few things like this.

[Alyeska]

IIRC the M4 is slated to replace the M16 as the standard issue assault rifle in the US military. When the OICW comes on line it is supossed to replace the M4/M203 combination as a support weapon, not a front line assault rifle. The OICW is to bulky to make it an effective assault rifle with variable range capabilities. The current M4 is a highly flexible assault rifle carbine that can fire up to the same max range as any other full sized assault rifle (600 meters) with relative accuracy. It is highly customizable depending on the mission and relatively light.

The OICW while impressive, lacks the durability of standard assault rifles. From the information I have seen, it is going to be just a support weapon (like the M16/M203 M4/M203 combinations) and not an actual replacement for the standard issue assault rifle.

However IMO the OICW is still to futuristic to be used. Its advanced technologies and size make it a problematic weapon at best. There is already and advanced weapon system currently being developed (and is infact nearing full scale completion and field testing.)

The FN F2000, it has much better modular weapons capabilities over the OICW and retains greater standard assault rifle capabilities. Standard Weaver sights can be installed, or a fire contrl targeting scope can be installed. A forward grenade launcher can be installed or removed. The gun itself can be disasembled into only a handful of parts.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/f2000_3.jpg